Strachan..out...poll

[scotsgary2]

3 minutes ago, deso1 said:

read this thread, and wasn't gonna post, cos still gutted at missing out, and have absolutely no belief in the sfa, the manager, the coaches, the players, grassroots football in Scotland..............

but after watching the first few games from euro16........Im certain we would have got gubbed off every side so far........due to having a mediocre manager..............BUT MAINLY BECAUSE OUR PLAYERS ARE TINY/SLOW and WEAK(physically and mentally) compared to every other team.

GOD HELP US, cos we have years more pain to come............we need to coach fitness/strength/speed before technique........might sound old fashioned, but THATS THE BASICS.

Eh..

Albania and Russia surely not 

[ErsatzThistle]

5 minutes ago, deso1 said:

read this thread, and wasn't gonna post, cos still gutted at missing out, and have absolutely no belief in the sfa, the manager, the coaches, the players, grassroots football in Scotland..............

but after watching the first few games from euro16........Im certain we would have got gubbed off every side so far........due to having a mediocre manager..............BUT MAINLY BECAUSE OUR PLAYERS ARE TINY/SLOW and WEAK(physically and mentally) compared to every other team.

GOD HELP US, cos we have years more pain to come............we need to coach fitness/strength/speed before technique........might sound old fashioned, but THATS THE BASICS.

It's that kind of attitude there that is holding us back. The "Boot the ball up the park", "break that 's legs", "stop fannying about with the ball" nonsense.

Fitness, strength and speed is exactly what they teach them at that Largs waste of space.

Prioritising winning through ugly, brutal football and largely talentless players who are there only because they are tall for their age but cannot pass, trap, shoot, tackle or cross the ball properly. 

Telling small youngsters that they can't make it if they aren't at least 5'10. 

Take a look at how Jermaine Defoe and Kevin Phillips have done both are 5'7 tall.

Technique comes first every single time.

[deso1]

just an opinion........thought Albania showed enough to worry us.....and Russia were poor but were playing a decent side and scraped a draw, so aye, I stick by my opinion that we would have lost to everyone so far.

[scotsgary2]

1 minute ago, deso1 said:

just an opinion........thought Albania showed enough to worry us.....and Russia were poor but were playing a decent side and scraped a draw, so aye, I stick by my opinion that we would have lost to everyone so far.

cant agree sorry.

Thought the games so far have been poor.

[deso1]

I thought they games so far have lacked technique, and have been quite poor, and I agree technique is important........but if 7 or 8 of our players are smaller/slower/weaker than average............we will never have the ball long enough to use our technique.

[BraveheartGordon]

3 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

It's that kind of attitude there that is holding us back. The "Boot the ball up the park", "break that 's legs", "stop fannying about with the ball" nonsense.

Fitness, strength and speed is exactly what they teach them at that Largs waste of space.

Prioritising winning through ugly, brutal football and largely talentless players who are there only because they are tall for their age but cannot pass, trap, shoot, tackle or cross the ball properly. 

Telling small youngsters that they can't make it if they aren't at least 5'10. 

Take a look at how Jermaine Defoe and Kevin Phillips have done both are 5'7 tall.

Technique comes first every single time.

What absolute nonsense that is, as someone who's undertaken a good number of the licenses now, I've never once heard anything except technique being prioritized.

 

Is it just too hard for you to admit that actually we aren't weaker than many of the teams who did qualify, but we conceded too many goals from set-plays and crosses and conceded the first goal too often (especially away from home).

 

I've also never heard of SFA coaches prioritizing height of young players or at any pro-youth club that I've witnessed.

 

I hear these nonsensical ramblings all too often, which is especially confusing as we don't have a particularly tall national team, we have a large number of smaller technical players who you are actually describing.

Edited June 12, 2016 by BraveheartGordon

[Paulo2576]

10 hours ago, deso1 said:

read this thread, and wasn't gonna post, cos still gutted at missing out, and have absolutely no belief in the sfa, the manager, the coaches, the players, grassroots football in Scotland..............

but after watching the first few games from euro16........Im certain we would have got gubbed off every side so far........due to having a mediocre manager..............BUT MAINLY BECAUSE OUR PLAYERS ARE TINY/SLOW and WEAK(physically and mentally) compared to every other team.

GOD HELP US, cos we have years more pain to come............we need to coach fitness/strength/speed before technique........might sound old fashioned, but THATS THE BASICS.

Fitness/strength/speed before technique. Deary me. Have you been talking to Martin O'Neill? There is no doubt that pace is an essential commodity in certain positions, but above all things command of the ball should be a footballers priority.

We aren't miles behind all the teams at the euros. In all honesty teams from qualifying Pots 2, 3 and 4 are all of a similar standard (with a few exceptions) that could all beat each other on any given day, which is why winning your home games is vital.

A combination of factors are why we aren't there, including strange results elsewhere in the group, but ultimately blame lies with ourselves and Gordon Strachan. I had no objection to giving him the renewed contract, but with this I expected things to change - not wholesale changes, but at least using the past 4 friendlies to show a vision of the future, but instead when things got tough he reverted to type. We were awful against France and Italy. Brutal against Denmark and equally hopeless against Czech Republic until Snodgrass came on. It now seems that our first game against Malta will probably be exactly the same line up as we ended the campaign with. Add all this to his at times bizarre selection policy and that he is a complete prisoner to his formation I don't things look good for him. Im not baying for his head yet but I do want him to change.

[deecie]

Doesn't matter how big or strong you are if it takes you 3 touches to control the ball.

Being unable to pass to a teammate more than 10 yards away is another problem much bigger than physical size.

Ah well.

[deso1]

On the subject of Martin O'Neill..............Think I would rather be in his position than ours............... They knocked us out because they had strength/pace etc rather than technique.......Their fans are holidaying in France, and we are writing on forums.......AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVENT WON A MATCH AT A CHAMPIONSHIP IN 20 YEARS and IT COINSIDES WITH OUR ATTEMPTS TO COACH TECHNIQUE.........SURELY YOU CAN LEARN TECHNIQUE AT ANY AGE.............BUT YOU HAVE A LIMITED TIME TO BUILD PACE,STRENGTH,DISCIPLINE?

DONT RECALL LOOKING BACK AT 70s,80s ITALY 90,euro92,96,france 98................THINKING GOD WE HAD NO TECHNIQUE............AT LEAST WE WHERE THERE.

[er yir macaroon]

3 hours ago, deecie said:

Doesn't matter how big or strong you are if it takes you 3 touches to control the ball.

Being unable to pass to a teammate more than 10 yards away is another problem much bigger than physical size.

Ah well.

Our problem is retaining the ball under pressure. That requires technique and core strength.

[aaid]

14 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Our problem is retaining the ball under pressure. That requires technique and core strength.

Completely agree, the last player we had that could do that was Barry Ferguson.

[jw22]

Never said he has to be a Scot was just a few names and both of them i doubt would do worse than Strachan. We need someone with something to prove, a young hunger manager who wants to make a name for themselves for the right reasons not someone in the twilight of there career. But i would be happy with any nationally as long as we improve.

[Third Lanark]

We ought to try to get Lagerbeck back - or Slaven Bilic would be a good shout.

[ErsatzThistle]

13 hours ago, BraveheartGordon said:

What absolute nonsense that is, as someone who's undertaken a good number of the licenses now, I've never once heard anything except technique being prioritized.

Is it just too hard for you to admit that actually we aren't weaker than many of the teams who did qualify, but we conceded too many goals from set-plays and crosses and conceded the first goal too often (especially away from home).

I've also never heard of SFA coaches prioritizing height of young players or at any pro-youth club that I've witnessed.

I hear these nonsensical ramblings all too often, which is especially confusing as we don't have a particularly tall national team, we have a large number of smaller technical players who you are actually describing.

We are weaker than many of the teams that did qualify.

Seen plenty of stupid cavemen coaching kids who are SFA certified and most stick to the rugged, battering ram tactics and selection policy of the 1916 rather than 2016.

It's rotten system by a rotten football association. 

[er yir macaroon]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

Completely agree, the last player we had that could do that was Barry Ferguson.

and he was derided as Barry back pass and so on. He was in a completely different class to our current midfielders.

[Malcolm]

34 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

and he was derided as Barry back pass and so on. He was in a completely different class to our current midfielders.

Yeah, I remember all the stick Barry got which was undeserved.

 

[Malcolm]

Unless we play well above ourselves and or have lots of luck I reckon we will third or finish fourth.   I can see us losing home and away to England.

[Paulo2576]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

Completely agree, the last player we had that could do that was Barry Ferguson.

Easily the best and classiest  Scottish player of the last 25 years or so. What I'd do for someone like him now. 

[Dunty]

6 minutes ago, Paulo2576 said:

Easily the best and classiest  Scottish player of the last 25 years or so. What I'd do for someone like him now. 

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

[Dunty]

19 hours ago, deso1 said:

just an opinion........thought Albania showed enough to worry us.....and Russia were poor but were playing a decent side and scraped a draw, so aye, I stick by my opinion that we would have lost to everyone so far.

The Scotland in Strachan's first year - the one which beat Croatia, beat Poland in a friendly, drew in Warsaw and gave the Germans a game in Dortmund - they would do well at this Euros.

Since then though we've regressed. Snodgrass was injured, Brown was playing with an injury, Whittaker, Hutton and Fletcher weren't playing at club level, but we kept picking pretty much the same team anyway and ignoring others on form who could have come in and replaced them.

If Strachan was able to freshen things up and go to a plan b, we would be good enough. I refuse to believe we don't have the players to compete at Euro 2016. We have a stubborn manager and that's the reason we're not there.

[Wolfgang Overthebar]

1 hour ago, Dunty said:

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

And conveniently forgotten European Cup winner Paul Lambert?

[thplinth]

7 minutes ago, Dunty said:

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

I'd still say now he is a better player than Ferguson ever was. Ferguson never achieved what Fletcher has. I have listened to Ruud Gullit going on about him a couple of times on match of the day highlighting his play and how he bossed the match. Do folk think Fergie kept picking him out Scottish sentimentality?   

[kumnio]

25 minutes ago, Dunty said:

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

Stuart McCall 

[Paulo2576]

25 minutes ago, Dunty said:

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

I would take Ferguson over all of them. McAllister would be a contender for sure but I'd have Barry. Neil McCann are you serious?

[aaid]

27 minutes ago, Dunty said:

25 years? Wow.

Just for starters I'll name you five midfielders we've had in that time who were better than Ferguson.

John Collins, Gary McAllister, Neil McCann, Stuart McCall, Paul McStay.

You could also argue Darren Fletcher at his peak was a better player.

Neil McCann?

Anyway, you can't compare Ferguson, McAllister and McStay with McCall, Lambert and Fletcher as their roles were completely different.   

Ferguson, McAllister and McStay were all for want of a better word, playmakers.  When they played, they were the fulcrum of the team and dictated play and that's a big part of why McAllister and McStay rarely played together.  All different types of players with strengths and weaknesses but that was their role.  You can argue about who was the best but I think they each belong in that company.

For all that Fletcher, McCall and Lambert were good players for us, I don't think they had a role that carried that level of responsibility, to some extent their strengths were more about stopping the other team playing, not that that should be devalued.  I was a huge fan of Lambert but when he won the European Cup with Dortmund, he was essentially a water carrier for Paulo Sousa