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Third Lanark

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Just a thought this..Right, we've had countless reasons expounded as to why we're failing to produce world class players. Now, while watching the rUK countries at the Euros I was driven to ponder this: why do we not produce black players of Caribbean heritage? Think about it. Scots colonised Jamaica and the islands in their droves and many West Indians have names like Stewart, Sinclair etc. They have even adopted some Scots words into their patois. Yet, when I was growing up in Glasgow in the fifties I can only remember seeing one black person who lived downstairs from us. We have Jamaica Bridge in Glasgow and historic links as a port city with the tobacco and slave trades. And the only footballer I can think of with Caribbean heritage was maybe Kevin Harper. Sure, Iwelumo and Anya spring to mind, but they are of African extraction. England have Danny Wellbeck, Marcus Rashford - the list is endless. Even Wales have Taylor and Williams, thanks to the huge Tiger Bay WI community. Even NI today will have Josh McGinnis. But Scotland? I've been away from the old country for many years now so perhaps things have changed. I don't know, but why did not Glasgow have a similar influx to the likes of Cardiff and London during the windrush era? Seems to me that the natural athleticism of this ethnicity might supply what we're missing.

Oh, and please don't come out with racist pish; as I say, it's just food for thought...

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20 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

See, I knew I'd get misunderstood. I'm simply asking why Scotland don't have their fair share of players of Caribbean heritage; we already have plenty of Irish heritage. Seems a reasonable question, no?

Because the Irish immigrated here in massive numbers for 150 years+ whereas the only BAEM people in Scotland prior to WW2 were sailors in Glasgow boarding houses waiting for for their next ship or sons of Indian princes studying law in Edinburgh.

For the record our senior payers of BAEM background are/were:

Andrew Watson (3 caps 1881-82, captain too)

Paul Wilson (1 cap 1975)

Nigel Quashie

Chris Iwelumo

Matt Phillips

Ikechi Anya

Liam Bridcutt

At Under 21 level there has been:

Kevin Harper

Liam Palmer

Islam Feruz

Jordan Archer

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3 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Thanks for that, Ersatz. Forgot about Andrew Watson - we were kind of trailblazers then, ironically. It's funny how they went to Cardiff though. Glasgow was a major port with West Indian links though.

They brought goods up the Clyde like sugar, tobacco, cotton and rum here rather than slaves by the hundreds and thousands to be sold. The small number of slaves that ended up in Glasgow were individuals brought as servants to wealthy families, John Glassford (whom the Glasgow street is named after) is known to have had a black slave as a manservant for example.

Whilst a lot of sailors from Africa, the Caribbean and Asia habitually passed through Glasgow, Port Glasgow and Greenock during the heydays of empire, only a handful settled seem to have settled here permanently. 

Love this picture of our captain Andrew Watson in his Scotland jersey.

111222054230-watson-1882-horizontal-larg

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1 hour ago, Boynze said:

the op has a point, we have not benefitted from immigration as almost every other european country has. It's a pity those from Bangladesh and Pakistan are crap at football.

They do help our cricket team though

 

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4 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

.

.

Love this picture of our captain Andrew Watson in his Scotland jersey.

111222054230-watson-1882-horizontal-larg

Hadn't seen this documentary piece before.   Different times.

It would be great to have a player of his stature now.

 

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Don't think it's any more complicated than Scotland is too cold when it came to immigrants making a choice of city to live in

we also didn't exploit rules as much as other home nations

john barnes

graeme le saux

Matt le tissier

all above could have played for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland 

lot of Nigerians had kids in Scotland in recent years due to oil industry so you never know

 boatengs mess my head up a bit - 1 brother playing for Germany and one for Ghana 

 

 

 

 

 

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 0:24 AM, Grim Jim said:

Hadn't seen this documentary piece before.   Different times.

It would be great to have a player of his stature now.

 

Great little documentary. Here's a piece from a few years ago, apparently his father was from Orkney...

 

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/fate-of-scotland-s-first-black-footballer-revealed-1-2845754

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  • 2 weeks later...

Brothers who play on different teams.

Paul Pogba Juventus and France

Mathias Pogba Partick Thistle and Guinea

Guess who gets the bragging rights there.

I don't think the OP or thread is racist. Scotland does not have many non-white players because it has had very low levels of immigration. People who have moved here have primarily been white.

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

Brothers who play on different teams.

Paul Pogba Juventus and France

Mathias Pogba Partick Thistle and Guinea

Guess who gets the bragging rights there.

I don't think the OP or thread is racist. Scotland does not have many non-white players because it has had very low levels of immigration. People who have moved here have primarily been white.

So you don't think the bit about "the natural athleticism of their ethnicity" is in the least bit dodgy?

Edited by aaid
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2 hours ago, aaid said:

So you don't think the bit about "the natural athleticism of their ethnicity" is in the least bit dodgy?

Well that's debatable.

In fact there has been research done about connection between ethnicity and athleticism inspired by the success of Jamaican sprinters. The results suggested that Jamaican sprinting benefited (if you'll forgive that word given the context) from the trafficking of people from West Africa and their natural physiology, although also suggested that cultural factors helped as well (not drinking Buckie from 13?)

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2008/08/jamaican_me_speedy.html

https://www.aei.org/publication/the-dna-olympics-jamaicans-win-sprinting-genetic-lottery-and-why-we-should-all-care/

 

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Africans and people of African descent have much, much more genetic diversity that the rest of the world combined.   (The rest are descended from two small groups that left Africa before/during the ice ages, if I remember correctly.)

So it would not surprise me if there are athletic advantages in some African genes.   I hope that is not dodgy, and that any real geneticist on the TAMB will set me straight if I'm talking pish.

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59 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Hasn't appeared to have held Iceland back...

 

Africans are genetically fitter and faster due to running away from lions. 

Icelandics are genetically fitter and faster due to running away from flowing lava. 

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Sorry to burst people's bubble, but there is no connection between ethnicity and physical performance.

I studied it at university last year and the only academic studies claiming any sort of link had a poor sample size or rationale.

There is no difference between a pale skinned scotsman and someone with dark skin in terms of running ability population wide.

Jamaicans aren't born great sprinters, they have exceptional sprinting programs.

Skin colour is also controversial in itself with Brazillians recognizing over 80 ethnicities as opposed to ''black'' and ''white'', the Brazillians actually don't think the US has had a ''black'' president yet.

Its all nonsense imagined by the western world.

Anthropogenics is a different kettle of fish though.

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3 minutes ago, BraveheartGordon said:

Sorry to burst people's bubble, but there is no connection between ethnicity and physical performance.

I studied it at university last year and the only academic studies claiming any sort of link had a poor sample size or rationale.

There is no difference between a pale skinned scotsman and someone with dark skin in terms of running ability population wide.

Jamaicans aren't born great sprinters, they have exceptional sprinting programs.

Skin colour is also controversial in itself with Brazillians recognizing over 80 ethnicities as opposed to ''black'' and ''white'', the Brazillians actually don't think the US has had a ''black'' president yet.

Its all nonsense imagined by the western world.

Anthropogenics is a different kettle of fish though.

Fast twitch muscle fibers?

What about the African marathon runners - I read a study that covered many interesting aspects relating to the genetic profile that supported their superiority at long distance running, problem is I currently can't quite recall the specifics. 

In any event, I'd have reservations with anything taught as gospel at Universities, only need look towards Doctor's and their obsession with 'treating' every 'symptom' with drugs, due to the x,y,z study's 'findings' 

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On 6/28/2016 at 3:27 AM, BraveheartGordon said:

Sorry to burst people's bubble, but there is no connection between ethnicity and physical performance.

I studied it at university last year and the only academic studies claiming any sort of link had a poor sample size or rationale.

There is no difference between a pale skinned scotsman and someone with dark skin in terms of running ability population wide.

Jamaicans aren't born great sprinters, they have exceptional sprinting programs.

Skin colour is also controversial in itself with Brazillians recognizing over 80 ethnicities as opposed to ''black'' and ''white'', the Brazillians actually don't think the US has had a ''black'' president yet.

Its all nonsense imagined by the western world.

Anthropogenics is a different kettle of fish though.

what about the Kenyan distance runners - (all comng from 1 tribe as well )  

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