aaid Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: FFS I thought he was supposed to be gay This case has got more twists than a bag of christmas lights Plenty of people who are gay are married to partners of the opposite sex - especially those who are in denial or are conflicted about their sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Heard a Scots guy who works at the club getting interviewed this morning. He said nobody who works there had any knowledge of who the gunman was, which according to the guy would've been very unusual if he'd previously frequented the place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I've heard his dad was a CIA asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 3 hours ago, aaid said: Plenty of people who are gay are married to partners of the opposite sex - especially those who are in denial or are conflicted about their sexuality. I know Was just trying (poorly) to lighten up the conversation What about watching shemale porn ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 14 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: I know Was just trying (poorly) to lighten up the conversation What about watching shemale porn ? All depends on who's on the receiving end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, aaid said: All depends on who's on the receiving end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 On 6/14/2016 at 2:35 PM, aaid said: His issue was that a lot of commentators were reluctant to refer to it as a homophobic attack. Thats the way I interpreted it as well, didn't seem too difficult to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 On 6/14/2016 at 3:25 PM, thplinth said: Why do people think it is a homophobic attack. The shooter was gay but was a awkward misfit who 'nobody liked'. This is more like Columbine than a hate crime. The fact everyone was gay is not that relevant. His feelings that he had been rejected seems more important. His ex wife said she did not think it was terrorist attack nor that he had any links to terrorists. She also said the FBI told her not to tell this the american media / public (she married a Brazilian guy and was speaking to their media I think). The comments by the father are odd as clearly the sight of men kissing would not bother someone who spends regular nights at his local gay night club. I find the weird call to the police in the middle of the rampage a little odd as well but let's see what emerges. Certainly his father is an interesting 'character'... You are clearly an intelligent guy as you have shown numerous times on here but you don't honestly believe the bit in bold do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 49 minutes ago, Mox said: You are clearly an intelligent guy as you have shown numerous times on here but you don't honestly believe the bit in bold do you? I don't know yet if it is relevant however i can easily see how it would not be relevant in the context originally supplied. Columbine wasn't a hate crime against students, it was a student attacking their social group for making them "pariah", this wasn't a hate crime against LGBT, it was a LGBT attacking their social group. I'm not saying those are the contexts, I don't know, I haven't been following the story.closely. However thplinth within those contexts isn't really saying anything crazy or weird. Perhaps he's more intelligent to you and his point is beyond you, as opposed to he is saying things he doesn't believe. Both possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, phart said: I don't know yet if it is relevant however i can easily see how it would not be relevant in the context originally supplied. Columbine wasn't a hate crime against students, it was a student attacking their social group for making them "pariah", this wasn't a hate crime against LGBT, it was a LGBT attacking their social group. I'm not saying those are the contexts, I don't know, I haven't been following the story.closely. However thplinth within those contexts isn't really saying anything crazy or weird. Perhaps he's more intelligent to you and his point is beyond you, as opposed to he is saying things he doesn't believe. Both possibilities. Whit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 23 minutes ago, Mox said: Whit? Well if that's the only issue then my work explaining is done. I was just pointing out there might be a reason for writing what he did other than him saying things he doesn't believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 4 minutes ago, phart said: Well if that's the only issue then my work explaining is done. I was just pointing out there might be a reason for writing what he did other than him saying things he doesn't believe. I know, i was just playing a wee joke at my own expense regarding intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 That was exactly my point phart. If someone had said columbine was a hate crime against high school students folk would have thought naw dont be a thick dick. But when it was against gays the must be a hate crime reflex was triggered big time... But this was a a gay guy who probably had a deep self loathing for what he was and who was then rejected uniformly by the people he loathed to be one of. Plus he was super angry generally it seems. This appears much more columbine in nature than a hate crime and so once again for the hard of thinking the fact they were all gay is not that an important or relevant feature here based on the facts so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilser Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Trump has just been on Channel 4 news bemoaning the fact that the club goers in Orlando weren't tooled up. I'm starting to wonder if his candidacy isn't some sort of elaborate hoax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 You have to tune into the american way of thinking here. They know there is not a chance now of getting the guns out of their society. At the very best all you could do is disarm all the honest people, that is it, the best achievable. So it will never happen. Instead their solution is that if a dozen or so random citizens had been able to conceal carry in that gay club then the killer would have been stopped or slowed far sooner. This is the practicable solution now versus dreamer programs to get all the criminal to surrender their guns along with all the honest gun holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Mox said: I know, i was just playing a wee joke at my own expense regarding intelligence. Whooshed me, best i keep quiet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, neilser said: Trump has just been on Channel 4 news bemoaning the fact that the club goers in Orlando weren't tooled up. I'm starting to wonder if his candidacy isn't some sort of elaborate hoax... The whole thing might be a massive troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 1 hour ago, thplinth said: That was exactly my point phart. If someone had said columbine was a hate crime against high school students folk would have thought naw dont be a thick dick. But when it was against gays the must be a hate crime reflex was triggered big time... But this was a a gay guy who probably had a deep self loathing for what he was and who was then rejected uniformly by the people he loathed to be one of. Plus he was super angry generally it seems. This appears much more columbine in nature than a hate crime and so once again for the hard of thinking the fact they were all gay is not that an important or relevant feature here based on the facts so far... As i said I haven't been looking at it, too much heavy shit going on(in the world, i'm fine) so trying to give myself a break. However i could see the point being made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 5 hours ago, thplinth said: You have to tune into the american way of thinking here. They know there is not a chance now of getting the guns out of their society. At the very best all you could do is disarm all the honest people, that is it, the best achievable. So it will never happen. Instead their solution is that if a dozen or so random citizens had been able to conceal carry in that gay club then the killer would have been stopped or slowed far sooner. This is the practicable solution now versus dreamer programs to get all the criminal to surrender their guns along with all the honest gun holders. This is very true. I think many of us subconsciously assume that, because of language and history, America is basically an obese UK with fewer pavements. The cultural importance of firearms, however, is completely alien to most of us. The gun is central to America's myth of itself. Part of it is a deep American distrust of its own Government (to which is also connected the Trump phenomenon). Two dystopian works of fiction from diametrically opposed perspectives, the white supremacist The Turner Diaries and the liberal feminist The Handmaid's Tale, both posit a suspension of the constitution and a disarming of the citizenry as a prelude to dictatorship. No politician will be able to bring through anything other than the most cosmetic tinkering with gun legislation at state or federal level because Americans see them as complicit in a desire to restrict their freedoms. Add to that 'the pioneer spirit' to which hunting is central, be it with bow and arrow, musket or AK47, and which is all tied up with biblical tropes like exodus from Pharaonic slavery and Adam's stewardship of creation. Plus the belief (again a trust issue) that Government can't control terrorism - which, of course, it can't - and we is where we is. Nowt's going to change, other than more folk are going to walk around tooled up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Why is a Liberal democrat parliamentary candidate going on about Liberals? Also why is he constructing an argument that isn't in displayed in this thread and telling us to think it through. He thought it not anyone on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 2 hours ago, phart said: Why is a Liberal democrat parliamentary candidate going on about Liberals? Also why is he constructing an argument that isn't in displayed in this thread and telling us to think it through. He thought it not anyone on this thread. The Liberal Democrats and Liberals to whom he is addressing are unconnected Its about those that are desperately quick to eliminate the possibility that this was Jihadi related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Any chance you could translate that into your own words because I haven't got a clue what he is trying say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Any chance you could translate that into your own words because I haven't got a clue what he is trying say. Bascally the liberals to which he refers to are those (mainly in America) that blame the West for everything Jihadi related and consistently state that Islam is a religion of peace. Immediately after the tragedy the same liberals were quick off the mark to try and convince everyone that this couldnt possibly be Jihadi related for the reasons given above He was pointing out that with his personal experience they are talking cack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraz65 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Excellent article in the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/16/gay-muslim-islam-is-no-religion-of-peace.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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