Jeremy Corbyn - fecked?

[exile]

UKIP f*cked?

[Rossy]

5 minutes ago, exile said:

UKIP f*cked?

Yes.

They'll never have a bigger chance to take a seat, and they still couldn't do it.

It matters little. The Tories and UKIP are the same thing these days.

[Guest flumax]

4 minutes ago, exile said:

UKIP f*cked?

They've achieved every they set out to do without having win more than a couple of by elections and council seats. 

 

[Ally Bongo]

Clearly Kezia's interview on Federalism (lol) yesterday was geared towards Labour winning these two by-elections and giving the illusion they might win a general election and deliver (lol) federalism (lol) 

It's going to be a good Scottish Labour conference

[aaid]

A good night for the Tories, a bad night for Labour but a terrible night for UKIP.

Just having a quick look at the results and while the fact remains that incumbent governments should not pick up opposition seats in by-elections, I'm not sure why Copeland is being described as rock-solid Labour.  They may have held the seat for years but if you look back, the majority was only a shade over 2000 and with the exception of 1997, it's never been that high.  Looks like the classic constituency mix of a medium sized town that votes Labour and a rural hinterland that votes Tory.  Turnout down, Tory vote holding up, Labour vote not turning out in as big numbers and UKIP moving to Tory in big numbers. But still, Labour should have been able to hold on.

What's interesting in Stoke is that it doesn't appear as though support for Brexit is translating to support for UKIP against Labour in the way that a lot of commentators have suggested.

All this with the caveat that you shouldn't read too much into by-elections.

 

[Parklife]

The media are controlling who governs the country. 

A floundering Conservative party who allowed the vote to leave the EU and who are botching the exit process, are given a free ride by the media and, as such, can effectively chose who governs the country. 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Parklife

[Rossy]

31 minutes ago, Parklife said:

The media are controlling who governs the country. 

A floundering Conservative party who allowed the vote to leave the EU and who are botching the exit process, are given a free ride by the media and, as such, can effectively chose who governs the country. 

The media have what they want. An ultra-right wing Tory party dancing to their tune.

Of course they're going to give them a free ride.

 

It doesn't take away the fact though that the Labour party under Corbyn are utterly unelectable. Another year of his 'leadership' could see them in the wilderness for a generation or more.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Rossy

[Toepoke]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Just having a quick look at the results and while the fact remains that incumbent governments should not pick up opposition seats in by-elections, I'm not sure why Copeland is being described as rock-solid Labour.  They may have held the seat for years but if you look back, the majority was only a shade over 2000 and with the exception of 1997, it's never been that high.  Looks like the classic constituency mix of a medium sized town that votes Labour and a rural hinterland that votes Tory.  Turnout down, Tory vote holding up, Labour vote not turning out in as big numbers and UKIP moving to Tory in big numbers. But still, Labour should have been able to hold on.

Yes it is very rare for the government to pick up seats in by-elections, but i've not really seen it mentioned that the current government and opposition are very different to the ones immediately after the 2015 election...

 

[aaid]

3 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Yes it is very rare for the government to pick up seats in by-elections, but i've not really seen it mentioned that the current government and opposition are very different to the ones immediately after the 2015 election...

 

That's a good point, particularly about it being a new government that to an extent is still on its honeymoon period, that isn't being highlighted.

[jailender]

No matter which way you look at it, that is a very bad result for labour.

[Orraloon]

We shouldn't forget the Sellafield effect. Corbyn's anti nuclear stance has the potential to win Labour far more votes than it loses. Just not in this seat. By the time the next election comes around most folk will have forgotten these by elections.

[Rossy]

57 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

We shouldn't forget the Sellafield effect. Corbyn's anti nuclear stance has the potential to win Labour far more votes than it loses. Just not in this seat. By the time the next election comes around most folk will have forgotten these by elections.

Nope.

Labour in England are just starting to discover what Labour in Scotland have known for a few years.....that the old political certanties are dead. 

Labour's traditional support in England no longer has 'traditional' Labour values. Their traditional support no longer has an industrial, working-class background. They're simply the less well off, looking for someone to blame and attracted to the bigoted messages that UKIP/the Tories/the right-wing media are offering them.

The thing is, now that the Tories have stolen UKIP's clothes and have swung to the right, there's a vacuum in English politics that Labour have a golden opportunity to fill......the centre ground of English politics is now empty.

Unfortunately for Labour though, they're led by a pathetic, weak intellectual ideologist who has no interest in leading Labour to government.

I don't care about Labour, but there are many millions of people south of the border who want, and deserve, a better opposition to the Tories than the shambles Labour are offering just now.

[Ally Bongo]

Mind we all thought he was a good guy and different from all the rest ?

"The SNP must "respect democracy" and accept Scotland is leaving the EU with the UK"

"An Independent Scotland will have to join the Euro"

"Our country is divided enough, do not divide us again"  - But how do you fancy a federal division that we cant deliver and wouldnt even if we could"

I really fvcking hate them - all of them

Edited February 26, 2017 by Ally Bongo

[Rossy]

55 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Mind we all thought he was a good guy and different from all the rest ?

"The SNP must "respect democracy" and accept Scotland is leaving the EU with the UK"

"An Independent Scotland will have to join the Euro"

"Our country is divided enough, do not divide us again"  - But how do you fancy a federal division that we cant deliver and wouldnt even if we could"

I really fvcking hate them - all of them

Corbyn takes some time out of his busy schedule of destroying Labour, to make a day trip to Scotland and lecture us....telling us that the best thing for Scotland's future is to accept Westminster dependence and therefore decades of a disgusting ultra-right wing Tory government.

It's beyond parody. Insulting in fact. 

[aaid]

3 hours ago, Rossy said:

Corbyn takes some time out of his busy schedule of destroying Labour, to make a day trip to Scotland and lecture us....telling us that the best thing for Scotland's future is to accept Westminster dependence and therefore decades of a disgusting ultra-right wing Tory government.

It's beyond parody. Insulting in fact. 

To be fair, the great orator did say he wanted to thank all the SNPs, twice. 

[Guest flumax]

Another by election for labour to lose http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39099489

[aaid]

13 minutes ago, flumax said:

Another by election for labour to lose http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39099489

If they come anywhere close to losing that seat they are well and truly ####ec. 

[Padre Andrew]

17 hours ago, flumax said:

Another by election for labour to lose http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39099489

I developed some respect for Kaufmann recently when he came out and said, in essence, he'd changed his mind about how Israel was treating the Palestinians. Haven't time to look for the clip now, but maybe someone knows of it.

Re the by-election, what was his majority at the last GE? I imagine he'll have had quite a large personal vote, and that might not stay automatically with Labour.

[86glebestreet]

4 minutes ago, Padre Andrew said:

I developed some respect for Kaufmann recently when he came out and said, in essence, he'd changed his mind about how Israel was treating the Palestinians. Haven't time to look for the clip now, but maybe someone knows of it.

Re the by-election, what was his majority at the last GE? I imagine he'll have had quite a large personal vote, and that might not stay automatically with Labour.

Think it was over 24 thousand

[Padre Andrew]

2 minutes ago, 86glebestreet said:

Think it was over 24 thousand

Just looked - 24,000+ with the Greens in second place.

Go Greens!

[exile]

I don't know if JC is fecked but the Labour party still seems to be tearing itself in opposite directions

"Jeremy Corbyn says indyref2 'absolutely fine'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39244890

Jackie Baillie describes comments as an "insult"

Ian Murray MP tweets (a bit cattily?)

"Often asked why I resigned from Shadow Cabinet. Ladies & Gentlemen I give u Jeremy Corbyn. He's destroying the party that soo many need."

[Flure]

[Hertsscot]

38 minutes ago, exile said:

I don't know if JC is fecked but the Labour party still seems to be tearing itself in opposite directions

"Jeremy Corbyn says indyref2 'absolutely fine'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39244890

Jackie Baillie describes comments as an "insult"

Ian Murray MP tweets (a bit cattily?)

"Often asked why I resigned from Shadow Cabinet. Ladies & Gentlemen I give u Jeremy Corbyn. He's destroying the party that soo many need."

Funny then that Labour in Scotland got obliterated at a General Election before Cornyn was leader.

[aaid]

The gift that keeps on giving. 

[exile]

3 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Funny then that Labour in Scotland got obliterated at a General Election before Cornyn was leader.

I'm not saying Corbyn is wrong and Scottish Labour right. Or the other way round. Just pointing out that different parts of Labour are pulling in different directions.