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Jeremy Corbyn - fecked?


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6 hours ago, aaid said:

That depends on whether you view education as a product or service or as a fundamental human right.  The history of education in Scotland tends to suggest that it's generally viewed as the latter.

If you look back to the not so distant past when the Scottish state education system could be rightly considered as world leading there was no free market element.   I'm not an educationalist and don't have any insight as to why it went wrong, I suspect there are numerous reasons but the lack of a market isn't one of them. 

Part of the reason that the NHS in Scotland is outperforming the rest of the U.K. Is because the Scottish Government - Lab/Lib coalition to be fair to them - abolished the ridiculous artificial internal market. 

The "free" market is generally not the best model for the provision of universal public services.

 

Those are not mutually exclusive choices. It is a product it is a service and I will leave you to debate if it is a 'fundamental human right' but clearly that can be anything someone says it is. 

From distant memory the state school system in Scotland is I understand the church of scotland school system that was effectively nationalized. I recall this was why the catholics went their own way. 

I personally think education would be far better if we had real competition. This idea that education must be uniform is deeply socialist. If parents could opt out of education taxation, not be punished for it,  and then allowed to buy their kids education from anywhere (that is approved) it would get better not worse. Parents are ruthless when it comes to what they perceive as the best for their kid. They will make far better choices than the state every time.

Education has become politicized. There is this belief that all kids must receive the same education even it that means it is a shit one. 

Why? 

 

Edited by thplinth
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I would also say if you believe that education is a fundamental human right, why tax it, why add VAT for private schools? That is like taxing bread or water if that is what you believe? The Czech's dont tax beer (from memory) as they consider a fundamental food and exempt from VAT. Yet you want to tax education...

If education is so fundamental should there not be choice, zero tax?

It is not just rich people it is ordinary people who have done ok for themselves who just want to (instead of pissing their money away on say holidays or other crap ) invest in their kids. I think a lot of this is driven by economic jealousy. A parent  spending their own money on improving their own child's education should never be punished.

Edited by thplinth
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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Parents are ruthless when it comes to what they perceive as the best for their kid. They will make far better choices than the state every time.

 

Your first point is correct, your second point is not.

That whole "no-one knows what's better for my kids than I do" mantra, just doesn't make sense.   It somehow assumes that as part of the process of ejaculating, conceiving and giving birth somehow you are imbued with the entire wisdom of "what's best for kids".  Obviously they have much better insight that people who spent a lifetime studying and researching education, then again maybe not.

Parents generally only look at what is best for their own children, that's entirely understandable but it doesn't necessarily mean that's what's best for your kids is what's best for society as a whole.

Thankfully in Scotland, we don't have a two tier state education system which decides on a child's future prospects at the age of 11.  God only knows who actually thinks that grammar schools are a good thing.

Since this thread is about Jeremy Corbyn, he has a good line about wanting the education staircase for all children, not a ladder for the few.

IMHO, one of the worst things that happened in education in the UK was when the Thatcher government brought in the ability for parents to choose which school that their children went to.  What happened then was that "good" schools got better because they were able to attract pupils with higher potential and the "bad" schools got worse because they were left with all the "bad" pupils.

There's a fair bit of evidence which says that high-performing pupils actually serve to bring up the overall level of other pupils in the school by providing positive role models.

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On 08/04/2017 at 1:06 PM, TDYER63 said:

Croissant? What is wrong with a soda scone ? Get that foreign nonsense tae fook. 

What about butteries? Could there be an export market?

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I don't understand why Scottish Labour are so doggedly anti-independence. Surely they could have a 'social justice first, we don't care under which flag' ticket, and maybe attract voters bored with the constitution. They could hedge their bets on indy, ask RISE sympathisers to lend their votes in UK elections, and position themselves for a revival if indy happened. Instead their 'social justice first' stance rings completely hollow when they are so adamantly unionist, to the point of preferring Tory rule to anything the SNP propose.

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2 hours ago, exile said:

I don't understand why Scottish Labour are so doggedly anti-independence.

Because behind the facade they are a staunch pro Unionist and Establishment party

Always have been and always will be

Ralph Miliband knew

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Actually had a look at the Labour manifesto (bypassing the media spin!)

http://www.labour.org.uk/page/-/Images/manifesto-2017/Labour Manifesto 2017.pdf

There's a section (in Extending Democracy) on Scotland - actually it fits comfortably on a single page - in fact the text would cover just half a page.

Actually quite shocked how insubstantial it is. OK the national party may have bigger fish to fry; but the idea the 'branch office' couldn't even fill out a whole page of ideas for the future of a country is a bit depressing.

And what are the five policies about?

1. About something they don't want (guess what!)

2. Er...stuff about the benefits of policies in England/UK.

3. An actual policy.

4. Something about blacklisting (?)

5. Something about the miners' strike.

Is that it??

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  • 2 weeks later...

Aye took a while to dig out the link but here you... the Guardian mourning the rise of Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/26/conservative-opinion-poll-lead-labour-times-yougov-manchester-attack

22 down to 5. Mmmm that is a lot. May has maybe made a huge fhuck up here. This could be awesome. If that poll is just even near right I think the tories may have truly screwed themselves.  

 

Edited by thplinth
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21 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Aye took a while to dig out the link but here you... the Guardian mourning the rise of Corbyn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/26/conservative-opinion-poll-lead-labour-times-yougov-manchester-attack

22 down to 5. Mmmm that is a lot. May has maybe made a huge fhuck up here. This could be awesome. If that poll is just even near right I think the tories may have truly screwed themselves.  

 

Heading conveys a mixture of surprise and saddness 

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How has Corbyn found himself here. Amazing. Without Brexit there would be no May as PM and without May no snap general election. Yet now implausibly Corbyn could win it. I quite like all of this. It has a good feel to it. 

However if Corbyn goes on to score a bunch of own goals and piss this away it will be no forgiveness. This is his chance. 

I think he is going to win it. He has a calmness about him I like.  May is like Clinton. You cant relate to her personally at all really. Every day that goes by between now and polling day he will gain and she will lose I would guess.

I think they may be worried.

 

Edited by thplinth
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I'm not even sure these polls are picking up all of Corbyn's support. One of his biggest assets are his huge team of activists who are persuading normally non voters to get out and vote for him. I don't think opinion polls really pick these people up. These folk were always his target audience. He was never going to persuade Tory voters to move back to Labour. I think a couple of million new voters have registered to vote. About 20 million folk didn't bother to vote last time round. He only needs to convince a couple of million of those that he is the man for them. 

Ordinary folk actually like Corbyn. His campaigning style appeals to the public. Even folk who want May to be PM don't actually like her. She is just a horrible woman and most folk know that.

I think it's going to be close but May will win it. Just. But just winning isn't good enough for her. She needs a big majority or she will be seen to have "lost" it. 

She will be shyting it. I wonder if it is possible to "un-call" a snap election?:lol:

 

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Corbyn has scored a few own goals by allowing Diane Abbott on the telly. Fuk me, she is useless. 

Having her as a home secretary would be like having Jimmy saville as a children's commissioner.

She is a walking car crash

 

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14 hours ago, thplinth said:

Whoah the fuhuck whoah. Has Jeremy Corbyn reduced May's lead from 22% to 5%? Parklife you have your bet wrong. It will not be a tory minority. 

I've also hammered the over 172.5 labour seats on the over/under market. As well as a few bets on the 226-250 labour seats band (was 28/1, now 9/1). 

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4 hours ago, girvanTA said:

Corbyn has scored a few own goals by allowing Diane Abbott on the telly. Fuk me, she is useless. 

Having her as a home secretary would be like having Jimmy saville as a children's commissioner.

She is a walking car crash

 

Being a walking car crash is the top requirement for the job. Check out Theresa May's record. 

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Just a comment on ScotLab and independence...i also do not understand their unionist position...can someone please please ask Kezia & whoever else do they support the existence of Latvia  Lithuania   Croatia  etc etc anyway on earth in fact...if so why oh why do they not think Scotland is entitled to statehood??  And for that matter England not entitled either Wales etc.

They COULD if they wanted to offer a different position, suggest Scotland and all UK constituent countries each become sovereign nations and then form a federation...

Whatever they do though, it is untenable of ScotLab to persist supporting a tory unionist stance.

 

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10 hours ago, buckielugger said:

Just a comment on ScotLab and independence...i also do not understand their unionist position...can someone please please ask Kezia & whoever else do they support the existence of Latvia  Lithuania   Croatia  etc etc anyway on earth in fact...if so why oh why do they not think Scotland is entitled to statehood??  And for that matter England not entitled either Wales etc.

They COULD if they wanted to offer a different position, suggest Scotland and all UK constituent countries each become sovereign nations and then form a federation...

Whatever they do though, it is untenable of ScotLab to persist supporting a tory unionist stance.

 

They don't even need to be pro-indy. They just need to say that a fairer society (etc) is their main aim, and health and education and maybe be anti Trident; and appeal to those voters who are motivated by that, rather than the constitution.

 

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10 hours ago, buckielugger said:

Just a comment on ScotLab and independence...i also do not understand their unionist position...can someone please please ask Kezia & whoever else do they support the existence of Latvia  Lithuania   Croatia  etc etc anyway on earth in fact...if so why oh why do they not think Scotland is entitled to statehood??  And for that matter England not entitled either Wales etc.

They COULD if they wanted to offer a different position, suggest Scotland and all UK constituent countries each become sovereign nations and then form a federation...

Whatever they do though, it is untenable of ScotLab to persist supporting a tory unionist stance.

 

Only two reasons that I can think of

  1. The expectation of honours bestowed of them by King Harry the 1st.
  2. They need money from UKLab to survive.

 

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Please stop with this Scottish Labour/ British Labour pipedream

They will NEVER EVER want Scotland to be Independent

I have just watched a clip on youtube of some fvcking glaswegian arsehole cycling up to Corbyn's car outside the Clutha telling him how great he is and how he hopes he will be PM to the sound of cheers from people outside the pub.

The guy has consistently repeated the mantra lie that Scotland is shite and we need servility to England

Fool me once .....

Edited by Ally Bongo
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56 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The guy has consistently repeated the mantra lie that Scotland is shite and we need servility to England

Oh please stop typing utter bollocks, just for a while, it's bad for my nerves. Alternatively, of course, you could post links to one or two of the times he's said "Scotland is shite" and "it needs servility to England" (I'm not sure that's even English) which, since he's said it repeatedly, shouldn't be a huge ask. Thanks.

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59 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

Oh please stop typing utter bollocks, just for a while, it's bad for my nerves. Alternatively, of course, you could post links to one or two of the times he's said "Scotland is shite" and "it needs servility to England" (I'm not sure that's even English) which, since he's said it repeatedly, shouldn't be a huge ask. Thanks.

1 - stop trolling me please. It's getting freaky. Alternatively put me on ignore. It's a really good board function

2 - “But just to be absolutely clear, I do not think there should be another referendum. I think that independence would be economically catastrophic for many people in Scotland. It would lead to a sort of turbo charged austerity with the levels of income the government has in Scotland, because of the very low oil prices and the high dependency on oil tax income.”

Economically catastrophic & Turbo charged austerity = Gives the impression Scotland would be shite on its own & needs England

3 - You can use mantra to refer to a statement or a principle that people repeat very often because they think it is true, especially when you think that it not true or is only part of the truth

 

Edited by Ally Bongo
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