Jeremy Corbyn - fecked?

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, DonnyTJS said:

Yeah. According to Ally's link she 'insisted' on going on, but even if that were the case, she should've been stopped. This was only ever going to play one way, and it isn't 'How brave of poor Amber', it's 'How nesh of pathetic Theresa'. A quite bizarre decision by the Tory PR machine.

Not sure where to go with that - what would an English equivalent of the SNP stand for? When the UK breaks up, as I'm sure it will, sooner rather than later, because the constitution can't cope with devolution, then I suppose England will become to all intents and purposes 'independent', but in the English context that doesn't really mean anything. The UK is (was?) governed under the English constitutional settlement of 1689; I'd like to think things would continue, constitutionally, as they were once those nations who have been 'devolved' within that constitution (a completely unstable concept) have become fully self-governing and created their own constitutions. That's what I'd like to think would happen - of course it won't. We'll end up with some cobbled together written job, like the rest of you, and that would be a rather shite imho.

Well I do know a fair few English people who are miffed that England (unlike Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) don't have their own parliament to vote on purely English issues so an ENP (for wish of a better term) could stand for that sort of thing I suppose.

[scotlad]

16 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Total BS with regards Robertson. I watched it all and every answer he gave was met by either mild/warm applause and some with cheers and they were an English audience.

I thought Robertson was solid but unspectacular.  He made his points capably but didn't really stand out.

Corbyn may well end up losing the election but he has strolled through the campaign.  He has frequently been dismissed as unelectable - often by the right-wing of his own party - but the more we see of him the more he looks like a viable candidate for PM.

The Conservative campaign, by contrast, has been a shambles.  There might be some merit in building your campaign around your leader's charisma but if you're going to do that you'd better hope your leader actually has some!

 

16 hours ago, thplinth said:

I don't mean to single out the SNP guy. Jezus, the liberal guy was truly fhucking appalling, the worst by far. But the SNP are coming across just like any other party while Corbyn is coming across like the edge of the same political wave that the SNP was riding (and now isn't).

Tim Farron is just an odd, odd guy.  I can't put my finger on it but there is just something not quite right him.  His quip about switching over to watch 'The Bake Off' on BBC2 was genuinely toe-curling and just made him look tawdry and small time.

[scotlad]

40 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Well I do know a fair few English people who are miffed that England (unlike Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) don't have their own parliament to vote on purely English issues so an ENP (for wish of a better term) could stand for that sort of thing I suppose.

Well, there's the English Democrats, but from what I've seen they make UKIP look like they've been wired up right.

ENP sounds like a dodgy prog-rock group. 

[Willie Miller's tache]

5 hours ago, scotlad said:

I thought Robertson was solid but unspectacular.  He made his points capably but didn't really stand out.

Corbyn may well end up losing the election but he has strolled through the campaign.  He has frequently been dismissed as unelectable - often by the right-wing of his own party - but the more we see of him the more he looks like a viable candidate for PM.

The Conservative campaign, by contrast, has been a shambles.  There might be some merit in building your campaign around your leader's charisma but if you're going to do that you'd better hope your leader actually has some!

 

Tim Farron is just an odd, odd guy.  I can't put my finger on it but there is just something not quite right him.  His quip about switching over to watch 'The Bake Off' on BBC2 was genuinely toe-curling and just made him look tawdry and small time.

Corbyn certainly didn't stroll through his radio 4 interview the other day!

[86glebestreet]

14 minutes ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

Corbyn certainly didn't stroll through his radio 4 interview the other day!

That was embarrassing 

[aaid]

At least he went on. Theresa May is dodging it tomorrow as well.

[biffer]

21 hours ago, DonnyTJS said:

Yeah. According to Ally's link she 'insisted' on going on, but even if that were the case, she should've been stopped. This was only ever going to play one way, and it isn't 'How brave of poor Amber', it's 'How nesh of pathetic Theresa'. A quite bizarre decision by the Tory PR machine.

Not sure where to go with that - what would an English equivalent of the SNP stand for? When the UK breaks up, as I'm sure it will, sooner rather than later, because the constitution can't cope with devolution, then I suppose England will become to all intents and purposes 'independent', but in the English context that doesn't really mean anything. The UK is (was?) governed under the English constitutional settlement of 1689; I'd like to think things would continue, constitutionally, as they were once those nations who have been 'devolved' within that constitution (a completely unstable concept) have become fully self-governing and created their own constitutions. That's what I'd like to think would happen - of course it won't. We'll end up with some cobbled together written job, like the rest of you, and that would be a rather shite imho.

What England needs to find, for itself, is how to more honestly represent the regional diversity of the country. There seems to be no appetite for regional parliaments, and there's not much enthusiasm for the  super mayors. So what do they do? No point in us suggesting things for them tbh, it has to come from within. Unfortunately when no more sophisticated options present themselves the more extreme and rabid loud voices gain a following. Until there is a more representative way of balancing out policy and economic decisions for the benefit of more areas of England, it'll be a very troubled place which were better off not being locked on the side of. 

[scotlad]

13 hours ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

Corbyn certainly didn't stroll through his radio 4 interview the other day!

Didn't he? I didn't hear it.

From what I've seen and heard of him and Labour generally so far I've been quite impressed. That's perhaps less down to them doing anything radical than the Tories trying to be too clever and coming across as sleekit and indecisive instead (IMHO).

[Parklife]

I guess he's not fecked after all.  

[Guest flumax]

4 hours ago, Parklife said:

I guess he's not fecked after all.  

Depends... Good result, no sniff of government, I half expect his blairites to stick it to him 

[neilly71]

if he can't win against the awful Theresa May then will he ever be able to win?

[thplinth]

Corbyn achieved an amazing result (but still a loss) in the face of almost uniform opposition from the entire mainstream media and a huge and relentless insurrection against him from day one in his own party who at times were more the opposition than the tories...

This result is stunning, make no mistake. Even though he lost.

[phart]

24 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Corbyn achieved an amazing result (but still a loss) in the face of almost uniform opposition from the entire mainstream media and a huge and relentless insurrection against him from day one in his own party who at times were more the opposition than the tories...

This result is stunning, make no mistake. Even though he lost.

It reminded me of a boxing match going to points, you assume the total underdog won because they did so much better than expected, but the result is a draw and the "champ" gets to keep their belt, but is tainted by it.

[thplinth]

13 minutes ago, phart said:

It reminded me of a boxing match going to points, you assume the total underdog won because they did so much better than expected, but the result is a draw and the "champ" gets to keep their belt, but is tainted by it.

If the Blairites had just even 'went along' instead of acting like utter pricks Corbyn would be PM right now.

New Labour is dead.

Well done Jeremy.

[Ally Bongo]

4 hours ago, neilly71 said:

if he can't win against the awful Theresa May then will he ever be able to win?

A point being missed by many particularly in Scotland

Corbyn's Labour resurgence in Scotland is a threat because of the magic beans of becoming PM he is selling.

If Nicola misreading the EU referendum was a mistake, Labour thinking they will win another referendum this year will be bigger IMO

 

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Labour thinking they will win another referendum this year will be bigger IMO

Another election you mean?

 

[Ally Bongo]

2 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Another election you mean?

 

Thats what 2 years of it being mentioned by the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, BBC and STV does to you 

[DonnyTJS]

9 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Thats what 2 years of it being mentioned by the Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, BBC and STV does to you 

Didn't Sturgeon mention a second referendum in passing a couple of months ago? Guess I imagined it ...

[phart]

38 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

Didn't Sturgeon mention a second referendum in passing a couple of months ago? Guess I imagined it ...

She did, it then got amplified a 1000 fold.

Tying the general election to an outcome that had a 85% turnout with 55% of folk voting against it a wee while ago wasn't the best plan though.

[Ally Bongo]

38 minutes ago, DonnyTJS said:

Didn't Sturgeon mention a second referendum in passing a couple of months ago? Guess I imagined it ...

After the result of the EU referendum she held a speech the next day in which she said they would try and find some compromise with Westminster for Scotland to remain in the single market.

However if those talks proved fruitless she insisted that Scots would have a choice at the end of the brexit process

[Toepoke]

Bizarre watching the Labour conference on the news there, full on Corbyn personality cult stuff. I'd thought the SNP had pushed it to the limit, but the stakes have been raised, they had Jezza emerging through dry ice tonight!

 

[Ally Bongo]

Have you seen this brass neckery ?

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-cunninghame-plan/

This is what politics is now - just one blatant unchallenged lie after another

 

[Orraloon]

16 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

Have you seen this brass neckery ?

 

 

Aye.

[mariokempes56]

Can I just bring this to the top ?

 

Corbyn's hypocrisy comes to fore as usual in his latest Scottish visit . 2 faced git.

[thplinth]

I think everyone accepts that Corbyn has stuck by his principles admirably and consistently for decades even when deeply unpopular. I personally like the guy from what I have seen and think he has been shafted quite a few times in recent years. My question is - is he now electable? I had a quick read of his wiki page recently which is no doubt unflattering. That said, I think it would be fair to compare voting for Corbyn as the same as voting for Tony Benn if he was younger and running for PM today.

So iIf elected would Brexit plus Corbyn (/ a Benn protege) provoke a significant economic recession in the UK. Politics and economics would collide and both momentarily agree to fuck over the UK government to teach us a bloody good lesson. If the economic horses are spooked by Brexit then surely throwing Corbyn into the stable straight after is going to send them spooked^(LSD).

As for that potential economic and political mess pushing Scottish folk to independence and indyref2, yeah,  Brexit + Corbyn could = the dynamite formula needed to move that political mountain, but it could also just blow us all the fuck up for a good while and cause people to retreat under the 'wing of the union'.

Brexit plus May or Corbyn. Wow. Long way since 2014 choices.