What's more cringeworthy?

[mariokempes56]

4

[George Saint]

22 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Nothing wrong with the people of Scotland wanting to stay in the EU. A fair chunk of the population down south want to do the same.

I know. I was one of those who voted to remain in the EU.

I guess I just find it annoying that Sturgeon has been trying to make an issue of the EU exit. Scotland had an independence vote and you voted to remain part of the UK. I appreciate that most people here didn't vote that way, but Scotland as a whole did. Having done that, I just feel that you need to accept the outcome of the referendum and not try and play the 'Scotland didn't let you down, Europe' card. What makes Scotland so special? London voted to remain, Bristol voted to remain, as did other places, but you don't see them trying to win favour with the EU.

I think the next time there is a referendum about Scotland leaving the UK, everyone in the UK should be allowed to vote. If either a majority of people in Scotland OR a majority of people in the ROTUK vote for Scotland to become independent, then Scotland should leave. This would give those of us in the rest of the UK the ability to decide that we don't want this ongoing saga of whether Scotland is going to leave or not. Like I said at the time of the first independence referendum, you are entitled to have a vote, but you can't mess the rest of us around with the constant threat of more and more referendums every time the 'circumstances in the UK' change so that you feel entitled to another referendum.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want the UK to leave the EU and I voted to try and prevent it, but I have to accept the decision. I just feel that, since Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK, that you should likewise accept it, instead of using it as an opportunity to call for another referendum.

[mariokempes56]

Scotland voting in a referendum on Independence is our business (the people of Scotland) - if we want one we will have one.

I fail to see your concern and what it does to "mess the rest of you around". 

 

As to London or Bristol - thats up to them.

 

 

[Och Aye]

17 minutes ago, George Saint said:

I know. I was one of those who voted to remain in the EU.

I guess I just find it annoying that Sturgeon has been trying to make an issue of the EU exit. Scotland had an independence vote and you voted to remain part of the UK. I appreciate that most people here didn't vote that way, but Scotland as a whole did. Having done that, I just feel that you need to accept the outcome of the referendum and not try and play the 'Scotland didn't let you down, Europe' card. What makes Scotland so special? London voted to remain, Bristol voted to remain, as did other places, but you don't see them trying to win favour with the EU.

I think the next time there is a referendum about Scotland leaving the UK, everyone in the UK should be allowed to vote. If either a majority of people in Scotland OR a majority of people in the ROTUK vote for Scotland to become independent, then Scotland should leave. This would give those of us in the rest of the UK the ability to decide that we don't want this ongoing saga of whether Scotland is going to leave or not. Like I said at the time of the first independence referendum, you are entitled to have a vote, but you can't mess the rest of us around with the constant threat of more and more referendums every time the 'circumstances in the UK' change so that you feel entitled to another referendum.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want the UK to leave the EU and I voted to try and prevent it, but I have to accept the decision. I just feel that, since Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK, that you should likewise accept it, instead of using it as an opportunity to call for another referendum.

Sturgeon said there would have to be material change for there to be another referendum. If this ain't material change then I don't know what is. 62%  - not 51% not 55% but 62%. Can you imagine if she did nothing and said I accept the result of the UK decision when she is First Minister of Scotland.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Och Aye

[HIGHTOWER 1314]

23 hours ago, George Saint said:

What's more cringe worthy?

1. The way that Scotland has been kissing the ass of the EU and acting like a nerdy kid trying to make friends with the cool kids.

OR

2. The way that fans from Wales, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have spent the entire Euro 2016 telling everyone how great they are (the best in the world, apparently - all three of them)?

Vote now, please.

Since this isn't exactly a secret ballot, I shall be voting for 2.

(A second 'cringe worthy2' poll will follow, should I not like the outcome of this first one.)

Tell you whats cringeworthy is england playing like fannies against iceland,england fans wrecking marseille before the russians even turned up.The english and welsh voting out of the EU and boris " karloff " johnson and co from the brexit campaign not having a clue what to do next since the vote went in their favour.Thats whats cringeworthy...................

[George Saint]

2 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Scotland voting in a referendum on Independence is our business (the people of Scotland) - if we want one we will have one.

 

I agree, up to a point.

However, think of it like this. Imagine if your wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend said to you that they weren't happy in the relationship and were thinking of leaving. You say, okay, we've talked before about trying to resolve things and I feel like I've done everything I can to help the relationship, so it's now up to you to decide. Let's say that your other half comes back a week later and says "I've thought about it and I want to stay". You're happy because you think things are sorted for a good while at least.

However, the following month they come back to you again with a similar concern. "Mario, you forgot to put the bin out and you didn't mow the lawn on Sunday and now the grass is really long. I'm not happy in this relationship and I'm not sure if I want to leave you". So, you say, "well, we kind of went through this last month and you said then that you wanted to stay and I thought we'd sorted things out. Now you're telling me you need to think again about everything."

The point I'm making, Mario, is that although it's your other halves decision whether they want to leave or not, there also comes a point where you are going to get sick and tired of the constant 'I might leave, I might stay' scenario. You wouldn't want to live your life with the constant possibility of the relationship ending. Eventually you're going to get to the point where you would say "Do you know what? Since you can't seem to make up your mind for any length of time, I'll make the decision for you. Pack your bags!"

Hopefully that argument makes sense, but you can come up with many other similar scenarios. Imagine if it was Rangers and Celtic constantly threatening to leave Scottish football and always having meetings to decide whether they're going to stay or not. After a while the other Scottish clubs are going to get fed up with things and tell them either to get on with and leave or to stay and stop the constant discussion about leaving.

Nobody wants to be part of a club where part of the membership is constantly agitating to leave.

 

[Guest BlueGaz]

7 minutes ago, George Saint said:

I agree, up to a point.

However, think of it like this. Imagine if your wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend said to you that they weren't happy in the relationship and were thinking of leaving. You say, okay, we've talked before about trying to resolve things and I feel like I've done everything I can to help the relationship, so it's now up to you to decide. Let's say that your other half comes back a week later and says "I've thought about it and I want to stay". You're happy because you think things are sorted for a good while at least.

However, the following month they come back to you again with a similar concern. "Mario, you forgot to put the bin out and you didn't mow the lawn on Sunday and now the grass is really long. I'm not happy in this relationship and I'm not sure if I want to leave you". So, you say, "well, we kind of went through this last month and you said then that you wanted to stay and I thought we'd sorted things out. Now you're telling me you need to think again about everything."

The point I'm making, Mario, is that although it's your other halves decision whether they want to leave or not, there also comes a point where you are going to get sick and tired of the constant 'I might leave, I might stay' scenario. You wouldn't want to live your life with the constant possibility of the relationship ending. Eventually you're going to get to the point where you would say "Do you know what? Since you can't seem to make up your mind for any length of time, I'll make the decision for you. Pack your bags!"

Hopefully that argument makes sense, but you can come up with many other similar scenarios. Imagine if it was Rangers and Celtic constantly threatening to leave Scottish football and always having meetings to decide whether they're going to stay or not. After a while the other Scottish clubs are going to get fed up with things and tell them either to get on with and leave or to stay and stop the constant discussion about leaving.

Nobody wants to be part of a club where part of the membership is constantly agitating to leave.

 

But this is Scotland and the SNP are powerful, at the moment.  There will be referendums until either one of two things happen, we vote yes, or the SNP are no longer the strongest party.  They are not bothered about the damage done in the meantime, because they have one aim, and one aim only..

Edited June 30, 2016 by BlueGaz

[Och Aye]

36 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said:

Scotland voting in a referendum on Independence is our business (the people of Scotland) - if we want one we will have one.

I fail to see your concern and what it does to "mess the rest of you around". 

 

As to London or Bristol - thats up to them.

 

 

The English don't get that tho. Cameron and Osborne, etc up here with scare stories and threats for the 'decision for the Scots' in 2014. Can you remember all those EU members coming to the UK with threats and scare stories in the last few months........ naw me neither. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by Och Aye

[TDYER63]

34 minutes ago, George Saint said:

I agree, up to a point.

However, think of it like this. Imagine if your wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend said to you that they weren't happy in the relationship and were thinking of leaving. You say, okay, we've talked before about trying to resolve things and I feel like I've done everything I can to help the relationship, so it's now up to you to decide. Let's say that your other half comes back a week later and says "I've thought about it and I want to stay". You're happy because you think things are sorted for a good while at least.

However, the following month they come back to you again with a similar concern. "Mario, you forgot to put the bin out and you didn't mow the lawn on Sunday and now the grass is really long. I'm not happy in this relationship and I'm not sure if I want to leave you". So, you say, "well, we kind of went through this last month and you said then that you wanted to stay and I thought we'd sorted things out. Now you're telling me you need to think again about everything."

The point I'm making, Mario, is that although it's your other halves decision whether they want to leave or not, there also comes a point where you are going to get sick and tired of the constant 'I might leave, I might stay' scenario. You wouldn't want to live your life with the constant possibility of the relationship ending. Eventually you're going to get to the point where you would say "Do you know what? Since you can't seem to make up your mind for any length of time, I'll make the decision for you. Pack your bags!"

Hopefully that argument makes sense, but you can come up with many other similar scenarios. Imagine if it was Rangers and Celtic constantly threatening to leave Scottish football and always having meetings to decide whether they're going to stay or not. After a while the other Scottish clubs are going to get fed up with things and tell them either to get on with and leave or to stay and stop the constant discussion about leaving.

Nobody wants to be part of a club where part of the membership is constantly agitating to leave.

 

Good analogy. However I doubt Mario will get the chance to throw her out . Within the next 2 years she will have made the decision to leave. Last time she was worried about how she would cope financially and had the kids to think about .

Well 2 years have passed and she is still in a passionless marriage , however the kids have flown the nest and she does not have the financial concerns she once had . Marios threats that she cannot cope on her own do not worry her.  Time to leave . 

[TDYER63]

38 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

But this is Scotland and the SNP are powerful, at the moment.  There will be referendums until either one of two things happen, we vote yes, or the SNP are no longer the strongest party.  They are not bothered about the damage done in the meantime, because they have one aim, and one aim only..

Nonsense. There is possibly one more referendum and that will be it . We either choose to leave  next time or move on.  If its the latter the SNP need to accept it or they will be ridiculed. 

[Guest BlueGaz]

8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Nonsense. There is possibly one more referendum and that will be it . We either choose to leave  next time or move on.  If its the latter the SNP need to accept it or they will be ridiculed. 

I disagree.  If, we have another and it is a narrow loss, do you honestly believe that will be it?  I don't.  If there is another I don't think it will be a narrow loss, but thats another argument.

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, BlueGaz said:

I disagree.  If, we have another and it is a narrow loss, do you honestly believe that will be it?  I don't.  If there is another I don't think it will be a narrow loss, but thats another argument.

I honestly believe if another referndum is lost  I will not see another one in my lifetime. And despite being on the wrong side of 50 I hope to have a good few years left in me. 

[jock strap]

1 hour ago, mariokempes56 said:

Iceland..

Exactly mate  

[jock strap]

39 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Good analogy. However I doubt Mario will get the chance to throw her out . Within the next 2 years she will have made the decision to leave. Last time she was worried about how she would cope financially and had the kids to think about .

Well 2 years have passed and she is still in a passionless marriage , however the kids have flown the nest and she does not have the financial concerns she once had . Marios threats that she cannot cope on her own do not worry her.  Time to leave . 

Right on the button this  

[Return of Yermaw]

10 hours ago, BlueGaz said:

But this is Scotland and the SNP are powerful, at the moment.  There will be referendums until either one of two things happen, we vote yes, or the SNP are no longer the strongest party.  They are not bothered about the damage done in the meantime, because they have one aim, and one aim only..

so in line with your blinkered assessment, the SNP have no interest in aiming to further reduce Scotland's carbon emissions;  in seeking to attract (and allow to stay) the brightest overseas students; boost overall attainment school levels but in particular those in deprived areas; maintaining free tuition fees and ensuring they do not negatively impact on those from deprived areas; aim to balance London austerity measures as best as possible through Scottish Parliament (limited) powers; introduce an integrated transport system; aim to ensure waiting time and other targets in the NHS remain the best in the UK.........

Yes, they have one aim and one aim only and that will be their downfall at any election that occurs after the 2014 independence vote. oh wait............. you seem to have them confused with UKIP......

[wellyman]

The people in England have had enough of conventional politics and hence the vote for Brexit down south,  just look at the state of the two main parties - Labour has a leader who has the majority of his own party that wants him out,  as for the Tories they have no leader and are the usual bunch of rich boys who are out of touch with the people.  The alternatives are zero , the Liberals have disappeared and then you have UKIP a bunch of right wing neanderthal's. The English people have voted to come out of the EU because they are unhappy with there own politicians . 

In Scotland there is the potential of a new form of politics that can be put in place through independence,  not everyone is a nationalist but it allows the people of Scotland to vote on things that matter in Scotland and not have it forced on them by out of touch politicians in westminster.

There has been 3 major votes in 2 years -

2014 - Independence - 45% for independence

2015 - general election - 56 out of 59 seats for the SNP

2016 - EU Referendum - 62% vote to stay in the EU

It only points to one thing in my view if there was another Indy Vote

 

  

[daviebee]

19 hours ago, George Saint said:

I know. I was one of those who voted to remain in the EU.

I guess I just find it annoying that Sturgeon has been trying to make an issue of the EU exit. Scotland had an independence vote and you voted to remain part of the UK. I appreciate that most people here didn't vote that way, but Scotland as a whole did. Having done that, I just feel that you need to accept the outcome of the referendum and not try and play the 'Scotland didn't let you down, Europe' card. What makes Scotland so special? London voted to remain, Bristol voted to remain, as did other places, but you don't see them trying to win favour with the EU.

I think the next time there is a referendum about Scotland leaving the UK, everyone in the UK should be allowed to vote. If either a majority of people in Scotland OR a majority of people in the ROTUK vote for Scotland to become independent, then Scotland should leave. This would give those of us in the rest of the UK the ability to decide that we don't want this ongoing saga of whether Scotland is going to leave or not. Like I said at the time of the first independence referendum, you are entitled to have a vote, but you can't mess the rest of us around with the constant threat of more and more referendums every time the 'circumstances in the UK' change so that you feel entitled to another referendum.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want the UK to leave the EU and I voted to try and prevent it, but I have to accept the decision. I just feel that, since Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK, that you should likewise accept it, instead of using it as an opportunity to call for another referendum.

[vanderark14]

On 30 June 2016 at 2:32 PM, George Saint said:

I know. I was one of those who voted to remain in the EU.

I guess I just find it annoying that Sturgeon has been trying to make an issue of the EU exit. Scotland had an independence vote and you voted to remain part of the UK. I appreciate that most people here didn't vote that way, but Scotland as a whole did. Having done that, I just feel that you need to accept the outcome of the referendum and not try and play the 'Scotland didn't let you down, Europe' card. What makes Scotland so special? London voted to remain, Bristol voted to remain, as did other places, but you don't see them trying to win favour with the EU.

I think the next time there is a referendum about Scotland leaving the UK, everyone in the UK should be allowed to vote. If either a majority of people in Scotland OR a majority of people in the ROTUK vote for Scotland to become independent, then Scotland should leave. This would give those of us in the rest of the UK the ability to decide that we don't want this ongoing saga of whether Scotland is going to leave or not. Like I said at the time of the first independence referendum, you are entitled to have a vote, but you can't mess the rest of us around with the constant threat of more and more referendums every time the 'circumstances in the UK' change so that you feel entitled to another referendum.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't want the UK to leave the EU and I voted to try and prevent it, but I have to accept the decision. I just feel that, since Scotland voted to remain as part of the UK, that you should likewise accept it, instead of using it as an opportunity to call for another referendum.

Why should we accept the decision when Westminster keep changing the goal posts? We were told the only way to remain part of the EU is to vote NO? This played a part in the whole currency debate and within two years Westminster have dragged us out of Europe with another campaign of lies which were exposed within 12 hours. Many NO voters were lied to with the Vow which won't be delivered. 

If if you want to point fingers at anyone, point them at Westminster for mucking everyone in the whole Union around. 

Regarding sturgeon, she's the democratically elected first minister of Scotland so she has to speak for the majority who voted to stay in Europe. She wouldn't be doing her job if she didn't. She's also the leader of the SNP and guess what their number one priority is? They will never give that up.

in short, take your "shut up and know your place Scotland" attitude and shove it up your arse.

Edited July 3, 2016 by vanderark14