Scotland's Game

[phart]

You'd think a wage bill that dwarfed all others (bar one) would be enough of a sporting advantage without having to increase it via various means.

It's crazed thinking, pathological monomaniacal desire that lead to the house burning down as you tried to make sure your wall was the highest, almost literally at any cost.

David "Ahab" Murray

[Big Col]

another excellent episode. Unfortunately it's all about the negative side of our game.

 

 

[Fermer]

37 minutes ago, Big Col said:

another excellent episode. Unfortunately it's all about the negative side of our game.

 

 

Attitude is all.  People in this country slag ally mcleod.  He had his faults but he was never negative.  If strachan starts with one up front on Sunday I wont watch it. Stems from roxburgh and the zero zero attitude.  If we start with one up front against malta I wont be back until strachan ####s off.  Every decent player in papers is telling him and us that.  But strachan knows better! 

[Ally Bongo]

36 minutes ago, Fermer said:

Attitude is all.  People in this country slag ally mcleod.  He had his faults but he was never negative.  If strachan starts with one up front on Sunday I wont watch it. Stems from roxburgh and the zero zero attitude.  If we start with one up front against malta I wont be back until strachan ####s off.  Every decent player in papers is telling him and us that.  But strachan knows better! 

Sadly it all stems from a lack of belief in our players ability which has grown yearly since 1990 as the talent has visibly got poorer

It's not hard to understand why Scotland coaches from Smith and McLeish to Levein and Strachan have become increasingly negative

Vogts and Burley went against the grain and the results were disastrous 

Think we all need a reality check  

(However there are negative tactics and then there is playing with no strikers which is unacceptable)

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by Ally Bongo

[thplinth]

I dont want to be Mr doom n gloom but I think the (relative) death of this board is a portent of the national team's future at least in the short to medium term. 

[giblet]

10 hours ago, thplinth said:

I dont want to be Mr doom n gloom but I think the (relative) death of this board is a portent of the national team's future at least in the short to medium term. 

I do detect a downturn in support for the national team, although it could be more to do with lack of competitive games for some time.  As for the board, social media outwith such as twitter is starting to really bite, anything goes page is clear example of that where topics are staying on page 1 now ad infinitum.

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, giblet said:

I do detect a downturn in support for the national team, although it could be more to do with lack of competitive games for some time.  As for the board, social media outwith such as twitter is starting to really bite, anything goes page is clear example of that where topics are staying on page 1 now ad infinitum.

To be fair it is the week of a competitive International and TA specific has seen more action lately than me in my 20s.

But without doubt there is a worrying trend of apathy and it all stems from those in charge of the Scottish game and the clubs themselves 

We can only be kidded on so far

 

[Toepoke]

Tonight's episode could be emotional...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07tj4rz

 

[Squirrelhumper]

On 9/2/2016 at 11:35 PM, Ally Bongo said:

 

Vogts and Burley went against the grain and the results were disastrous 

 

 

Both got us closer to qualification than either Levein or Strachan.......

[sbcmfc]

I think Burley and Vogts were up against it from early on, due to the way they were treated by the media, particularly Burley who was being undermined by the media, clubs and players pretty much from day 1.

[they've_been_suckered]

16 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I think Burley and Vogts were up against it from early on, due to the way they were treated by the media, particularly Burley who was being undermined by the media, clubs and players pretty much from day 1.

football wasn't great under vogts but hard to disagree with the above. 

[wanderer]

13 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I think Burley and Vogts were up against it from early on, due to the way they were treated by the media, particularly Burley who was being undermined by the media, clubs and players pretty much from day 1.

I would agree.

Vogts didn't help himself by signing a deal to write a weekly column for The Sun over The Record, and basically upset the hard core Scottish media guys..... Burley was in trouble from the off (wasn't it the Record who said Souness had the job a couple of days before Burley was announced?), thus both got treated very harshly by the media.... this is kind of why Levein and Strachan got/get off the hook somewhat and a easy ride, as they were the journalist choices of managers.

[fishcumnock]

The results in friendlies fvkked us up for future pots , which then led to

even harder groups to qualify from.

Well, that's what I think ,bastirts.

[Cove_Sheep]

4 hours ago, wanderer said:

I would agree.

Vogts didn't help himself by signing a deal to write a weekly column for The Sun over The Record, and basically upset the hard core Scottish media guys..... Burley was in trouble from the off (wasn't it the Record who said Souness had the job a couple of days before Burley was announced?), thus both got treated very harshly by the media.... this is kind of why Levein and Strachan got/get off the hook somewhat and a easy ride, as they were the journalist choices of managers.

Mark McGhee and his pish about not getting informed he had been unsuccessful until Burley had actually been appointed...

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, fishcumnock said:

The results in friendlies fvkked us up for future pots , which then led to

even harder groups to qualify from.

Well, that's what I think ,bastirts.

I don't think friendly results counted for seedings til fairly recently? 

 

[Toepoke]

Good one tonight. Some great memories,  but a load of painful ones...

 

[kumnio]

cntybaws still thinks 46 was a great formation.

Edited September 8, 2016 by kumnio

[Squirrelhumper]

Good to see Levein is still an utter cvnt.

 

[wanderer]

9 hours ago, kumnio said:

cntybaws still thinks 46 was a great formation.

He didn't actually say it was a great formation, just the one he thought was right for that match......He was using the old Paw Broon tactic of get a draw away from home and get the result at Hampden..... If this was Levein's aim, then 4-6-0 was the right formation to play as it nearly worked in getting a 0-0, but the difference being 90% of the time Craig Brown would back up his claim by getting the result at home after what would be viewed as a disastrous result away to Austria, Estonia or Greece etc..... also Levein totally over estimated just how good the Czech's were (if it was the Czech team of the early 00's, then fair enough, but that was a Czech team who were just about on a par with us).

Thought last night's episode was so-so.... had some good moments, but glossed over and rushed through a lot of stuff.... also the whole political things chucked in just felt like filler material that had no real place there.

[dipped flake]

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

[wee-toon-red]

5 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

Playing for a draw is one thing but it's the symbolism of putting out a team with no-one up front that people don't understand. That suggests you're not even going to attempt to win the game. Even the Faroes, San Marino etc play with at least one centre forward, regardless of who they play against.

Starting a game with no-one up front, not even trying to score a goal (which is kinda the whole point of football), is the ultimate admission of thinking your team isn't good enough to compete properly. The embarrassment of having a manager who starts a game against the Czech Republic, who weren't exactly Brazil, with such a mindset is probably why people were/are so outraged.

[Parklife]

11 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

Really? You don't understand the dislike of someone who didn't even try to win a match? 

[slasher]

23 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

Levein destroyed the one thing a fan can't live without.... hope!

I can honestly say that despite many gut churning lows under other managers, his tenure was the closest I've come to chucking it all in.

[Barney Rubble]

19 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

Disagree wholeheartedly.

Are you forgetting that Lithuania had gone there and won in the previous fixture? That gave us the opportunity to seal the Czech's fate in the group by beating them - like we should have done to Ireland in Dublin last year.

But no, Levein played straight into the myth that a draw against the competitor you need to overcome to ensure qualification is a good result.

Levein deserves everything he gets for that one performance alone. He was a truly honking Scotland manager as his record in qualifiers demonstrably proves (Serbia and Macedonia have already been discussed elsewhere).

[Parklife]

16 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Disagree wholeheartedly.

Are you forgetting that Lithuania had gone there and won in the previous fixture? That gave us the opportunity to seal the Czech's fate in the group by beating them - like we should have done to Ireland in Dublin last year.

But no, Levein played straight into the myth that a draw against the competitor you need to overcome to ensure qualification is a good result.

Levein deserves everything he gets for that one performance alone. He was a truly honking Scotland manager as his record in qualifiers demonstrably proves (Serbia and Macedonia have already been discussed elsewhere).

It was apparent from the Lithuania away game (his 1st competitive game) what type of manager he would be. Lithuania were not a good side, we were markedly better than the, Yet Levein chose to stick with the safety first approach for the whole 90 minutes. He was more concerned with not losing, rather than winning.