Scotland's Game

[Pool Q]

49 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It was apparent from the Lithuania away game (his 1st competitive game) what type of manager he would be. Lithuania were not a good side, we were markedly better than the, Yet Levein chose to stick with the safety first approach for the whole 90 minutes. He was more concerned with not losing, rather than winning. 

I don't really agree with that - he changed things towards the end, tentatively looking to go for the win - and Lithuania had there only good spell of the match. I wonder in fact if it wasn't this in part that led him to be quite so negative in Prague.

The 6-4-0 formation was and is indefensible, not only does it send a message in advance to both sets of players as to which team believes it is good enough to win, in football terms it takes any pressure off the opponents defence and frees them up to just attack (and gives our defence no 'out' and respite). And over and above all that it removes hope from the fans. He really should just put his hands up and move on from it. I believe he has done a good job at Hearts, but most of us feel his overly cautious approach is too often seen in the teams Neilson fields.

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

Cos he's an utter cvnt and was a disaster as a manager. Arrogant pr1ck of a man.

We could have won that game, he choose to not even attempt to win it. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, slasher said:

 

I can honestly say that despite many gut churning lows under other managers, his tenure was the closest I've come to chucking it all in.

This, 100% this.

I was so scunnered after Cardiff that i went to Bruges day of the Belgium game and had to be talked into travelling back to Brussels for the game. 

[Toepoke]

A 4-6-0 formation is fine if you're going to play tika taka like Spain, but we just kept lumping the ball up the park, to nobody. 

If Levein still believes the formation is acceptable then surely he should take the blame for not getting the team to play to the system correctly...

[wanderer]

1 hour ago, Pool Q said:

I don't really agree with that - he changed things towards the end, tentatively looking to go for the win - and Lithuania had there only good spell of the match. I wonder in fact if it wasn't this in part that led him to be quite so negative in Prague.

The 6-4-0 formation was and is indefensible, not only does it send a message in advance to both sets of players as to which team believes it is good enough to win, in football terms it takes any pressure off the opponents defence and frees them up to just attack (and gives our defence no 'out' and respite). And over and above all that it removes hope from the fans. He really should just put his hands up and move on from it. I believe he has done a good job at Hearts, but most of us feel his overly cautious approach is too often seen in the teams Neilson fields.

I have always taken it that he took the hammering off Sweden in Stockholm far to much to heart.... yes it was a bad result, but it resulted in Levein going somewhat into a shell with his tactics where suddenly avoiding defeat was the important thing (to the point a 0-0 draw was acceptable).... this was clear in Lithuania, but he made the changes far to late in the game to make any real impact, and even after 15 minutes in Prague it clear that this Czech side were a shadow of the side that consisted of Nedved, Poborský, Šmicer and Berger.... yet Levein had his mind set that he was not prepared to take the risk on altering things if that resulted in us getting beat heavily (to the point he was happy to only come away with a 1-0 defeat).

Thing was, in friendlies where the pressure was off, we did not actually look that bad under Levein.... just a case of he would get a couple of good wins in friendlies, get confidence up a tad, then come the next qualifier it was back to "avoid defeat at all costs!!!!".

Levein was bad, but Burley was still the worst Scotland boss in my life time and had to go when he went.... Levein had "luck" on his side, he got a group that consisted of the World and European Champions, plus a tricky side in the Czech Republic, so finishing 3rd was the very worst expected of him, so there was no way the SFA were going to sack him at the end of that campaign, and unfortunately he got 2 or 3 games as Scotland boss more than he should have.  

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, dipped flake said:

will never understand the hatred for Levein on here and the hysterical over reaction to the 4-6 formation. I do think there is justification in saying that he overestimated the strength of the Czechs but a draw away against them would have been a very good result. We were undone by poor defending at a corner kick, not by playing with 6 midfielders

We were undone because we didnt attempt to even have a shot on goal, let alone win the game. We were beat because once they scored we couldnt suddenly attack.

Levein should have been sacked that night. Absolute utter cnt of a loser.

[Pool Q]

19 minutes ago, wanderer said:

I have always taken it that he took the hammering off Sweden in Stockholm far to much to heart.... yes it was a bad result, but it resulted in Levein going somewhat into a shell with his tactics where suddenly avoiding defeat was the important thing (to the point a 0-0 draw was acceptable).... this was clear in Lithuania, but he made the changes far to late in the game to make any real impact, and even after 15 minutes in Prague it clear that this Czech side were a shadow of the side that consisted of Nedved, Poborský, Šmicer and Berger.... yet Levein had his mind set that he was not prepared to take the risk on altering things if that resulted in us getting beat heavily (to the point he was happy to only come away with a 1-0 defeat).

I had just about managed to forget that game against Sweden, thanks for that. Levein has never been an expansive manager, but the fear of losing really seemed to get to him in the Scotland job. His overly cautious tactics combined with his apparent (and clearly misguided) conceit that he is some sort of footballing visionary will always see him loathed by most Scotland fans. 

Edit. Meant to say that many Hearts fans believe that it was Levein that was behind what is seen as an overly cautious approach to the away leg against Birkirkara at the start of this season, a game that (I'm told, never saw it) was there for the taking. From what I saw in the 2nd leg it was more due to the fact that half of our players weren't match fit, but I thought at the time there could be said to be some sort of parallel to the game in Lithuania.

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by Pool Q

[wanderer]

Just now, Pool Q said:

I had just about managed to forget that game against Sweden, thanks for that. Levein has never been an expansive manager, but the fear of losing really seemed to get to him in the Scotland job. His overly cautious tactics combined with his apparent (and clearly misguided) conceit that he is some sort of footballing visionary will always see him loathed by most Scotland fans. 

Agree.

His attitude was very similar to that of Craig Brown in the 90's, but as I previously said, Brown at least backed it up with a home win (and usually a comfortable win in that, while Levein made heavy work of even home games)...... even Walter Smith had a similar attitude with his 4-5-1 anti-football tactics (but again, was able to get the results to back it up).

[McTeeko]

38 minutes ago, wanderer said:

I have always taken it that he took the hammering off Sweden in Stockholm far to much to heart.... yes it was a bad result, but it resulted in Levein going somewhat into a shell with his tactics where suddenly avoiding defeat was the important thing (to the point a 0-0 draw was acceptable).... this was clear in Lithuania, but he made the changes far to late in the game to make any real impact, and even after 15 minutes in Prague it clear that this Czech side were a shadow of the side that consisted of Nedved, Poborský, Šmicer and Berger.... yet Levein had his mind set that he was not prepared to take the risk on altering things if that resulted in us getting beat heavily (to the point he was happy to only come away with a 1-0 defeat).

Thing was, in friendlies where the pressure was off, we did not actually look that bad under Levein.... just a case of he would get a couple of good wins in friendlies, get confidence up a tad, then come the next qualifier it was back to "avoid defeat at all costs!!!!".

Levein was bad, but Burley was still the worst Scotland boss in my life time and had to go when he went.... Levein had "luck" on his side, he got a group that consisted of the World and European Champions, plus a tricky side in the Czech Republic, so finishing 3rd was the very worst expected of him, so there was no way the SFA were going to sack him at the end of that campaign, and unfortunately he got 2 or 3 games as Scotland boss more than he should have.  

Nonsense. As soon as we conceded he brought on Miller and Iwelumo. 

[kumnio]

Leveins arrogance after the game was almost as bad as the performance.

Burley was clueless at times, but he was undermined by a few arsehole players, and media that openly disliked him. Id take him over Levein any day, at least youd have a pint with him, I wouldnt want to be in the same room as Levein. 

I received some abuse for wanting rid of Levein and Burley early, I genuinely dont understand the whole building for the future nonsense when it comes to Scotland, we are a national side, not a club side, you have the players you have, get them playing a system that suits them, and get some positive results. If you cant do that, then they should be sacked, Levein knocked us back by years, and Burley was almost as bad. Its a results driven business, well it should be anyway.

[Boynze]

I still maintain that the home against the Netherlands under burley (think it was the last game of qualifying for wc 2010?) was the best I have seen Scotland play against one of the 'top' teams. ran them ragged for most of the game, Naismith (possibly his debut) was excellent, especially in the air, and hit the post and miller with his usual lack of strikers instinct was too slow to put the rebound away. lost late to a slip by david weir and affelay (I think) ran away to score the winner, and we were oot!

[Parklife]

15 minutes ago, Boynze said:

I still maintain that the home against the Netherlands under burley (think it was the last game of qualifying for wc 2010?) was the best I have seen Scotland play against one of the 'top' teams. ran them ragged for most of the game, Naismith (possibly his debut) was excellent, especially in the air, and hit the post and miller with his usual lack of strikers instinct was too slow to put the rebound away. lost late to a slip by david weir and affelay (I think) ran away to score the winner, and we were oot!

Yup. I agree. It's the best i've ever seen us play. We also had a Naismith goal wrongly disallowed. 

It was Elia that scored the winner in about the 80th minute 

[they've_been_suckered]

9 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Yup. I agree. It's the best i've ever seen us play. We also had a Naismith goal wrongly disallowed. 

It was Elia that scored the winner in about the 80th minute 

They couldn't handle Hutton as I remember it? 

[Pool Q]

...and Whittaker was excellent at LB. Thinking back, strange to remember just how well Scotland played in that game.

[Squirrelhumper]

32 minutes ago, Boynze said:

I still maintain that the home against the Netherlands under burley (think it was the last game of qualifying for wc 2010?) was the best I have seen Scotland play against one of the 'top' teams. ran them ragged for most of the game, Naismith (possibly his debut) was excellent, especially in the air, and hit the post and miller with his usual lack of strikers instinct was too slow to put the rebound away. lost late to a slip by david weir and affelay (I think) ran away to score the winner, and we were oot!

Naisy made his debut in the Faroes in 2007 whilst still at Killie......

[Parklife]

16 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Naisy made his debut in the Faroes in 2007 whilst still at Killie......

He was absolutely brilliant that night. One of my overriding memories of the game is Van Bronkhorst finally giving up trying to compete with him aerially and instead just letting Naismith win the headers and trying to fight for the 2nd ball. 

[silverbear]

1 hour ago, Boynze said:

I still maintain that the home against the Netherlands under burley (think it was the last game of qualifying for wc 2010?) was the best I have seen Scotland play against one of the 'top' teams. ran them ragged for most of the game, Naismith (possibly his debut) was excellent, especially in the air, and hit the post and miller with his usual lack of strikers instinct was too slow to put the rebound away. lost late to a slip by david weir and affelay (I think) ran away to score the winner, and we were oot!

It was his first start for Scotland & was at Rangers at the time.

Kenny Miller should have scored from the rebound, the keeper making the save & also hit the underside of the bar.

Scott Brown also missed from a similar distance, failing to hit the target.

44 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Naisy made his debut in the Faroes in 2007 whilst still at Killie......

Yep.

He came on as sub for Boyd with about 5min to go in a friendly if I remember correctly?

[dipped flake]

2 hours ago, kumnio said:

Leveins arrogance after the game was almost as bad as the performance.

Burley was clueless at times, but he was undermined by a few arsehole players, and media that openly disliked him. Id take him over Levein any day, at least youd have a pint with him, I wouldnt want to be in the same room as Levein. 

I received some abuse for wanting rid of Levein and Burley early, I genuinely dont understand the whole building for the future nonsense when it comes to Scotland, we are a national side, not a club side, you have the players you have, get them playing a system that suits them, and get some positive results. If you cant do that, then they should be sacked, Levein knocked us back by years, and Burley was almost as bad. Its a results driven business, well it should be anyway.

well I can assure you that Levein is an absolute gentleman to have a pint and a conversation with.

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, Boynze said:

I still maintain that the home against the Netherlands under burley (think it was the last game of qualifying for wc 2010?) was the best I have seen Scotland play against one of the 'top' teams. ran them ragged for most of the game,

We were great that night. Was a case of too little too late though. Even if we'd hung on for a point it wouldn't have been enough.

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, silverbear said:

It was his first start for Scotland & was at Rangers at the time.

Kenny Miller should have scored from the rebound, the keeper making the save & also hit the underside of the bar.

Scott Brown also missed from a similar distance, failing to hit the target.

Yep.

He came on as sub for Boyd with about 5min to go in a friendly if I remember correctly?

Qualifier away to Faroes. 

[Barney Rubble]

3 hours ago, dipped flake said:

well I can assure you that Levein is an absolute gentleman to have a pint and a conversation with.

That may well be the case.

But it does not disguise or compensate for his incompetence while in post as Scotland's manager.

[Toepoke]

I enjoyed most of the series but that was a poor finale. Apparently our game can be improved by merging the Angus clubs and letting fans use their phones to order burgers. And where was top ideas guru Henry McLeish this time?

[dan cake]

levein was and is a chunt

its as simple as that 

[ShedTA]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

I enjoyed most of the series but that was a poor finale. Apparently our game can be improved by merging the Angus clubs and letting fans use their phones to order burgers. And where was top ideas guru Henry McLeish this time?

I agree with this. It was enjoyable watching but really didn't hit anything hard enough. Seemed to shy away from a lot of stuff. The reasons for the decline are all apparent, even Stephen pressley can see them, but there was zero criticism of the people who have managed the game through this steady decline. And the clubs refusal to act to stop it.

[ShedTA]

On 09/09/2016 at 7:42 PM, Barney Rubble said:

That may well be the case.

But it does not disguise or compensate for his incompetence while in post as Scotland's manager.

Incompetence yes. Doesn't make someone a chunt as people on here suggest.