Oliver Burke

[Chesney TA]

48 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

What a heap of gobshite.

So do we denigrate Scots who came through youth systems in England of old or who blossomed at English clubs - of course not. Andy Murray learnt his trade in Spain but it makes him no less a Scot - it makes him determined to sacrifice a lot to get where he is today. Likewise with Burke - after all if all his schoolpals or English then surely the easiest option would have been for him to play for England. The fact that he didn't tells us much more about where his loyalties lie thank you very much. 

"Learnt his trade".  FFS.  Like reading a p15h tabloid football  journalist.  Andy Murray spent 18 months on and off in Barcelona mainly when he was 17.  It's not like he has the option of dual nationality

I think the broader point here is that when it comes to a sense of place, generally where someone is brought up is considered where they belong to.  Be that hometown, county, region, country or whatever.  So of course Burke can be reckoned to be English as that's where he's pretty much spent his entire life so it's not unreasonable for people to presume that.

Ultimately though, we're all from somewhere and it's really not that important.  I'm just glad he qualifies to play for Scotland and am glad he does.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Chesney TA said:

"Learnt his trade".  FFS.  Like reading a p15h tabloid football  journalist.  Andy Murray spent 18 months on and off in Barcelona mainly when he was 17.  It's not like he has the option of dual nationality

I think the broader point here is that when it comes to a sense of place, generally where someone is brought up is considered where they belong to.  Be that hometown, county, region, country or whatever.  So of course Burke can be reckoned to be English as that's where he's pretty much spent his entire life so it's not unreasonable for people to presume that.

Ultimately though, we're all from somewhere and it's really not that important.  I'm just glad he qualifies to play for Scotland and am glad he does.

Horse shite. I moved down to England (perhaps around same age as Burke - I was ten. It was not an option - at that age you go where the parents take you - end of story. However, it made my Scottishness stronger as it goes. Why? Well you face the English BS straight away such as English telling you how crap Scotland is so it develops you a backbone. You see how distasteful being spoken down to is and toughens ones resolve and magnifies your Scottishness. I don't expect you or many to understand this if you have not lived through it but I speak for myself and my older brother that we are devout Scotland supporters and have been to more Scotland matches than probably a good deal of Scots who have lived in Scotland all their lives.

PS I have now lived about half my life in England (not by choice) and half in Scotland

[Chesney TA]

28 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

However, it made my Scottishness stronger as it goes. Why? Well you face the English telling you how crap Scotland is so it develops you a backbone. You see how distasteful being spoken down to is and toughens ones resolve and magnifies your Scottishness

Abstract nonsense.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Chesney TA said:

Abstract nonsense.

Come back when you have lived through it okay. 

[Lion Rampant]

On 13/09/2016 at 9:37 PM, billy corby said:

Agreed , coming from corby where many many of us have exactly the same start , born in Scotland moved down early in life with the family , just been to malta and saw loads from corby , some on here have very small insular minds that  can't get past not having the same accent as them , and of course some scottish accents are stronger than others , so are the stronger accents more scottish ?!

I think the attitude on here is pretty consistant and there are very few people on here who expect the players for the national team to have scottish accents or be born here, their parents and grandparents born here etc.

I've always found that if a player has playing for Scotland as their first choice and qualifys to do so then that is all that matters to the overwhelming majority on here, regardless of their accent or where they were born. Don Hutchison and Graham Alexander are prime examples of this, although there are plenty more examples. As far as I can see Oliver Burke is every bit as keen to play for Scotland as those two.

Where the issues start is with guys like James Morrison and Matt Gilks who were prettly clear from the outset that they'd rather be playing for England. Posters on the TAMB haven't taken to these guys because of that and not because of whatever accent they have.

To suggest that people on here don't want people with non scottish accents playing for us is wide of the mark I think.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Lion Rampant

[iainmac1]

6 hours ago, Stuart87 said:

Are we allowed to see the quote where he says Scotland is his best (easiest) chance of international football?

It was on a Facebook interview posted up by sfa page. Think he said he thought he would get more of a chance playing with Scotland.

He also could view himself as Scottish on top of that though and might not have given playing for England a second thought.

It is a bit strange a Scottish born player wanting to play for Scotland even being the subject of debate. Especially one moving to Germany for  £13 million! 

If he had moved when he was slightly older and didn't have an English accent then we wouldn't even be talking about this.

Edited September 15, 2016 by iainmac1

[mcnish]

8 hours ago, Stuart87 said:

Are we allowed to see the quote where he says Scotland is his best (easiest) chance of international football?

Happy to oblige

Unless he meant by that  he would have a better chance of winning the world cup with Scotland  which I tend to doubt.

Anyway if he was fully commited to Scotland from the start and we were always his first choice he wouldn't have waited to under-19 level to declare for us. Its not like the SFA would have been unaware of him given their passion for scouring every lowly english club for granny links or that they were reticent to pick a player raised in England or that he's a late developer; he always seems to have been a top prospect at Forest. 

There's no explanation for him not having represented us at under-16 and under-17 level other than he was waiting for other options to materialise whatever his current stance is on the subject or what his old man says.  

File under Dominic Matteo.

[Radian]

24 minutes ago, mcnish said:

Happy to oblige

Unless he meant by that  he would have a better chance of winning the world cup with Scotland  which I tend to doubt.

Anyway if he was fully commited to Scotland from the start and we were always his first choice he wouldn't have waited to under-19 level to declare for us. Its not like the SFA would have been unaware of him given their passion for scouring every lowly english club for granny links or that they were reticent to pick a player raised in England or that he's a late developer; he always seems to have been a top prospect at Forest. 

There's no explanation for him not having represented us at under-16 and under-17 level other than he was waiting for other options to materialise whatever his current stance is on the subject or what his old man says.  

File under Dominic Matteo.

What goes on in your head is baffling?  Personally I just think you're trolling, I can't believe you are picking at faults in a Scottish born player playing for Scotland all because he didn't play for our u16's haha.  Suppose you hate all the players switching to Kosovo as well?

[thplinth]

32 minutes ago, mcnish said:

Happy to oblige

Unless he meant by that  he would have a better chance of winning the world cup with Scotland  which I tend to doubt.

Anyway if he was fully commited to Scotland from the start and we were always his first choice he wouldn't have waited to under-19 level to declare for us. Its not like the SFA would have been unaware of him given their passion for scouring every lowly english club for granny links or that they were reticent to pick a player raised in England or that he's a late developer; he always seems to have been a top prospect at Forest. 

There's no explanation for him not having represented us at under-16 and under-17 level other than he was waiting for other options to materialise whatever his current stance is on the subject or what his old man says.  

File under Dominic Matteo.

I'm filing that post under McNish Talks Pish.

[Bino's]

his touch in the Malta game was a bit heavy at times

but I'd start him against Lithuania

as would whole 11

[ErsatzThistle]

57 minutes ago, mcnish said:

Happy to oblige

Unless he meant by that  he would have a better chance of winning the world cup with Scotland  which I tend to doubt.

Anyway if he was fully commited to Scotland from the start and we were always his first choice he wouldn't have waited to under-19 level to declare for us. Its not like the SFA would have been unaware of him given their passion for scouring every lowly english club for granny links or that they were reticent to pick a player raised in England or that he's a late developer; he always seems to have been a top prospect at Forest. 

There's no explanation for him not having represented us at under-16 and under-17 level other than he was waiting for other options to materialise whatever his current stance is on the subject or what his old man says.  

File under Dominic Matteo.

What a lot of utter pish

You post history shows a bit of an unhealthy obsession with this subject.

[mcnish]

1 hour ago, Radian said:

What goes on in your head is baffling?  Personally I just think you're trolling, I can't believe you are picking at faults in a Scottish born player playing for Scotland all because he didn't play for our u16's haha.  Suppose you hate all the players switching to Kosovo as well?

I'm not picking faults with him playing for Scotland, I'd pick him, I'm just disputing the idea we should believe we are his first choice and that he has always identified as scottish and desired to play for us. 

As for Kosovo they've only existed in Uefa 5 minutes so the comparison is irrelevant.

[mcnish]

53 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

What a lot of utter pish

You post history shows a bit of an unhealthy obsession with this subject.

Or just making an effort to back my arguments with fact, logic and objective intellectual analysis as as opposed to just spouting s***e or presenting my own simplistic, biased and self-satisfying opinions as gospel truth , in the true TA spirit.

 

[Jacques Hunt]

If a player who is good enough and wants to play for Scotland having been born of a Scottish parent on a Greek registered ship whilst it was in the South China Sea, then went on to live most of his/her life in Angola, speaking Portuguese, then I say, 'welcome'.

Mind you, Ireland may get first claim.

[adamntg]

Boy's born in the Lang Toun.  That's more than good enough for me. 

[Grim Jim]

1 hour ago, Jacques Hunt said:

If a player who is good enough and wants to play for Scotland having been born of a Scottish parent on a Greek registered ship whilst it was in the South China Sea, then went on to live most of his/her life in Angola, speaking Portuguese, then I say, 'welcome'.

Mind you, Ireland may get first claim.

Mibbes if ye'd said 'bem-vindo', we might have got him

[ErsatzThistle]

Oh and to the stupid Dominic Matteo comparison by McPish

Matteo despite being born in Scotland played for England at Under 21 and B level and was twice on the bench for the senior team but didn't play. He switched to us at the age of twenty six.

Burke by comparison was playing for Scotland at eighteen and made his Scotland senior debut at nineteen. He also rejected a chance to play for England prior to being tied with us permanently. He has never played for England at any level. He does not compare at all to Dominic Matteo.

Drop your obsession with claiming Burke "isn't committed" or that "Scotland isn't his first choice" you've been repeatedly shown up for an idiot every time you bring up this complete nonsense.

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, adamntg said:

Boy's born in the Lang Toun.  That's more than good enough for me. 

Auchterarder? 

[macy37]

18 hours ago, Chesney TA said:

Abstract nonsense.

Try living where I do. 

[aaid]

8 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Oh and to the stupid Dominic Matteo comparison by McPish

Matteo despite being born in Scotland played for England at Under 21 and B level and was twice on the bench for the senior team but didn't play. He switched to us at the age of twenty six.

Burke by comparison was playing for Scotland at eighteen and made his Scotland senior debut at nineteen. He also rejected a chance to play for England prior to being tied with us permanently. He has never played for England at any level. He does not compare at all to Dominic Matteo.

Drop your obsession with claiming Burke "isn't committed" or that "Scotland isn't his first choice" you've been repeatedly shown up for an idiot every time you bring up this complete nonsense.

There's another point with Matteo.  At that time the three foreigners rule was in place for European games and Matteo was pressured by Liverpool to opt for England so that he wouldn't be considered as a foreigner.  The same happened to Hutchinson but he told them to stuff it to his credit. 

[deecie]

12 hours ago, Jacques Hunt said:

If a player who is good enough and wants to play for Scotland having been born of a Scottish parent on a Greek registered ship whilst it was in the South China Sea, then went on to live most of his/her life in Angola, speaking Portuguese, then I say, 'welcome'.

Mind you, Ireland may get first claim.

According to the Record, England are in for him too.

[adamntg]

11 hours ago, Ormond said:

Auchterarder? 

The big Lang Toun.

[Radian]

14 hours ago, mcnish said:

I'm not picking faults with him playing for Scotland, I'd pick him, I'm just disputing the idea we should believe we are his first choice and that he has always identified as scottish and desired to play for us. 

As for Kosovo they've only existed in Uefa 5 minutes so the comparison is irrelevant.

Sorry i think you have a higher than normal unhealthy hatred of England and it's so bad it clouds your head so much that you move onto looking at faults in Scottish born players who have any connection whatsoever to England.  heaven forbid he might be as passionate for Scotland as the fans are since he was born here, you never know stranger things have happened.  Just because you live in a different country doesn't mean your love for your own goes.

[Bino's]

22 minutes ago, Radian said:

Sorry i think you have a higher than normal unhealthy hatred of England and it's so bad it clouds your head so much that you move onto looking at faults in Scottish born players who have any connection whatsoever to England.  heaven forbid he might be as passionate for Scotland as the fans are since he was born here, you never know stranger things have happened.  Just because you live in a different country doesn't mean your love for your own goes.

having a higher than normal unhealthy hatred of England used to be called being a Scotland fan

[Orraloon]

5 hours ago, adamntg said:

The big Lang Toun.

The Big Lang Smelly Toon.