ceudmilefailte Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 8 hours ago, andymac said: Doesn't really hold up though. Isn't SSC membership down? Probably, all I said was it would be interesting to see if the increased feeling of national identity had changed things.You would think it would or perhaps the the high turnout was simply two fingers up at the establishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 9 hours ago, deecie said: And linking support for the Football team to support for Independence is moronic. I really struggle to understand how no voters can follow and support Scotland in international football without having some twinge of guilt over denying their Country independence. By definition of their decision they did not see Scotland as a Country but more as a region of UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 hours ago, giblet said: I really struggle to understand how no voters can follow and support Scotland in international football without having some twinge of guilt over denying their Country independence. By definition of their decision they did not see Scotland as a Country but more as a region of UK. I used to think this way but tbh I'm actually sick to the back teeth with reading and hearing about politics at the minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 3 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: I used to think this way but tbh I'm actually sick to the back teeth with reading and hearing about politics at the minute. I'm much the the same way about football at the moment thanks to the week leading up to the Old Firm game and this week's afters about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlueGaz Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 8 hours ago, giblet said: I really struggle to understand how no voters can follow and support Scotland in international football without having some twinge of guilt over denying their Country independence. By definition of their decision they did not see Scotland as a Country but more as a region of UK. Your struggle surprises me. You always came across as one of the more intelligent posters on the TAMB. Genuinely surprised that you struggle with the concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 27 minutes ago, BlueGaz said: Your struggle surprises me. You always came across as one of the more intelligent posters on the TAMB. Genuinely surprised that you struggle with the concept. Surely if you view the UK as your country and your nationality as British then you would rather have a British football team to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, iainmac1 said: Surely if you view the UK as your country and your nationality as British then you would rather have a British football team to support. Must have missed the "Are you British?" referendum. What was the result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, deecie said: Must have missed the "Are you British?" referendum. What was the result? It was on 18th September 2014. The result was appx 55% voting in favour of being British. I am surprised you didn't notice it at the time, it was a fairly big thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, deecie said: Must have missed the "Are you British?" referendum. What was the result? Who mentioned a referendum? My point stands for people that view themselves as primarily British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, northernscum said: It was on 18th September 2014. The result was appx 55% voting in favour of being British. I am surprised you didn't notice it at the time, it was a fairly big thing. I remember that one, but it was "Should Scotland be an independent country?" - a completely different question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, deecie said: I remember that one, but it was "Should Scotland be an independent country?" - a completely different question. Exactly, your catching on quick. We voted no, therfore our nationality is officially British. That is a part and parcel of independent nations. It determins our nationality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, deecie said: I remember that one, but it was "Should Scotland be an independent country?" - a completely different question. Aye, that was the question. But the answer was that 55% preferred to be British. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 21 minutes ago, northernscum said: Aye, that was the question. But the answer was that 55% preferred to be British. :-( No, it wasn't. 55% of people said that Scotland should not be an independent country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, deecie said: No, it wasn't. 55% of people said that Scotland should not be an independent country. You're going to need to explain to me how that is difference to 55% of people wanting to be British, given that being British was the alternative. Unless of course you're being obtuse. Heaven forfend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 10 hours ago, giblet said: I really struggle to understand how no voters can follow and support Scotland in international football without having some twinge of guilt over denying their Country independence. By definition of their decision they did not see Scotland as a Country but more as a region of UK. Football and politics should be kept separate, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, Marky said: You're going to need to explain to me how that is difference to 55% of people wanting to be British, given that being British was the alternative. Unless of course you're being obtuse. Heaven forfend! Being Scottish and British isn't mutually exclusive. It's a pretty simple concept. If you consider yourself Scottish and you thought it was best for Scotland to remain part of the U.K. You're still Scottish. I'm sure this concept will confuse the braindead 'Independence at any cost' mob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, deecie said: Being Scottish and British isn't mutually exclusive. It's a pretty simple concept. If you consider yourself Scottish and you thought it was best for Scotland to remain part of the U.K. You're still Scottish. I'm sure this concept will confuse the braindead 'Independence at any cost' mob. But you're not scottish though are you. Your nationality is British, you are a British citizen with a British passport. Edited September 13, 2016 by iainmac1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, deecie said: Being Scottish and British isn't mutually exclusive. It's a pretty simple concept. If you consider yourself Scottish and you thought it was best for Scotland to remain part of the U.K. You're still Scottish. I'm sure this concept will confuse the braindead 'Independence at any cost' mob. Ah the old "cost" argument. I guess it depends on how you define cost. Would Scots be financially worse off in this current short term? Possibly. Personally I give cost a far wider definition extending way beyond personal financial gain for greedy selfish people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 A large number of people who voted no seen no contradiction between being both Scottish and British. I'd suggest that anyone who supports Scottish Independence and wants to convince others gets their head around that and adopts a counter-narrative. Alternatively you could just shout "YOU'RE NOT SCOTTISH", that might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, Marky said: Ah the old "cost" argument. I guess it depends on how you define cost. Would Scots be financially worse off in this current short term? Possibly. Personally I give cost a far wider definition extending way beyond personal financial gain for greedy selfish people. I don't remember mentioning cost once. 13 minutes ago, deecie said: Being Scottish and British isn't mutually exclusive. It's a pretty simple concept. If you consider yourself Scottish and you thought it was best for Scotland to remain part of the U.K. You're still Scottish. I'm sure this concept will confuse the braindead 'Independence at any cost' mob. Yup, no mention of cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, deecie said: I don't remember mentioning cost once. Yup, no mention of cost. Erm. You mentioned cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, aaid said: A large number of people who voted no seen no contradiction between being both Scottish and British. I'd suggest that anyone who supports Scottish Independence and wants to convince others gets their head around that and adopts a counter-narrative. Alternatively you could just shout "YOU'RE NOT SCOTTISH", that might work. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, aaid said: A large number of people who voted no seen no contradiction between being both Scottish and British. I'd suggest that anyone who supports Scottish Independence and wants to convince others gets their head around that and adopts a counter-narrative. Alternatively you could just shout "YOU'RE NOT SCOTTISH", that might work. I do agree with you in principle aaid but I still struggle a bit with the concept of voting no and supporting Scotland. I guess the Scotland v UK is a bit of an anomaly that doesn't really exist elsewhere. I do however really struggle with the concept of voting no and singing our national anthem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, Marky said: Erm. You mentioned cost. I used the word 'cost', but as part of the phrase 'at any cost'. These have different meanings. Either way, some posts are worth repeating: 11 minutes ago, aaid said: A large number of people who voted no seen no contradiction between being both Scottish and British. I'd suggest that anyone who supports Scottish Independence and wants to convince others gets their head around that and adopts a counter-narrative. Alternatively you could just shout "YOU'RE NOT SCOTTISH", that might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 1 minute ago, deecie said: I used the word 'cost', but as part of the phrase 'at any cost'. These have different meanings. Either way, some posts are worth repeating: So what cost were you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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