Barca v Celtic

[Parklife]

15 minutes ago, slasher said:

That was 2 seasons ago. Last season he had some shockers, especially against Molde. You can't keep dining out on past glories forever.

You're right, my apologies. 

[Bannannan]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Yes but he's paid big money to make Celtic greater than the sum of their parts. It could easily be argued that he failed to get the best out of his players last night. 

His team was lightweight and didn't lay a glove on Barca. They stood off Barca and admired them, not even trying to get tight to them. That could be forgivable if there weren't also constantly massive gaps in behind the defence that Barca could run in to and exploit. 

I'm not having a pop at Celtic for not competing with Barca. However, they should certainly be able to be be stronger in defence and avoid humiliation. 

Defence incredibly naive.

[dandydunn]

 

Simply Brendan

When you've lost 7-0 to Barcelona...

Posted by JOE.co.uk on Wednesday, 14 September 2016

 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

2 hours ago, Parklife said:

Yes but he's paid big money to make Celtic greater than the sum of their parts. It could easily be argued that he failed to get the best out of his players last night. 

His team was lightweight and didn't lay a glove on Barca. They stood off Barca and admired them, not even trying to get tight to them. That could be forgivable if there weren't also constantly massive gaps in behind the defence that Barca could run in to and exploit. 

 

And he may well do so, but he isn't going to manage that overnight, or indeed in the couple of months he has been here. He is a good manager, not a miracle worker, although the fact that he has James Forrest actually looking like a player again may suggest otherwise.

Lets not forget that the collective views of the TAMB was that last season Celtic were poor/pish/one of the worst teams in their history/dreadful/average/all of the before. A 19 year old laddie, an average BPL winger and a 36 year old centre back aren't going to suddenly transform said same bad team into coping with a very good Barca team. Or are we suggesting your average TAMBer can be a bit two faced in labeling a team pish and then 2 months later expecting them to deal with Barca in full flight?!

As for the defence, well if you look at the displays all season then its still been shaky in bits and pieces. Think its only two clean sheets, one of those v the Gibs at home. The amount of goals scored is making up for the still shaky defence so its no surprise that a front 3 like Barca's were able to run it ragged considering their capabilities.

 

[Parklife]

23 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

And he may well do so, but he isn't going to manage that overnight, or indeed in the couple of months he has been here. He is a good manager, not a miracle worker, although the fact that he has James Forrest actually looking like a player again may suggest otherwise.

Lets not forget that the collective views of the TAMB was that last season Celtic were poor/pish/one of the worst teams in their history/dreadful/average/all of the before. A 19 year old laddie, an average BPL winger and a 36 year old centre back aren't going to suddenly transform said same bad team into coping with a very good Barca team. Or are we suggesting your average TAMBer can be a bit two faced in labeling a team pish and then 2 months later expecting them to deal with Barca in full flight?!

As for the defence, well if you look at the displays all season then its still been shaky in bits and pieces. Think its only two clean sheets, one of those v the Gibs at home. The amount of goals scored is making up for the still shaky defence so its no surprise that a front 3 like Barca's were able to run it ragged considering their capabilities.

 

I wasn't expecting Celtic to "cope" with Barca. I would just expect a manager who earns £40k a week to be able to organise a defence well enough to avoid a 7-0 defeat. 

[neilly71]

Celtic were poor and showed Barca way too much respect, although lets face it Barca are out of Celtics league. 7 - 0 is a lot more than im comfy with. Only a couple of players performances that i wouldnt criticise whch was Broony Tiernan and O'Connell when he came on. the rest of them want to take a look at themselves. We dont mind being beaten by a superior team but we have to see that our team has put in a good performance. Im not fancying this Doris character atall but in Brendan i trust, for now and im assuming he knows a lot mair than me about football. The CL is the big league and no team from Scotland or any of the other smaller countries are going to be able to compete. Celtic get their money from its large fan base and to us the £30m that we'll evetually earn as a result of gettign into the CL group stages is a big deal, whilst to some of the teams we're playing it wouldnt even pay for one of there players. We need to take what we can from the home gemmes and stop being fanboys of other clubs and put in some decent challenges for the ball instead of hanging back. Maybe we'd have been beat 7 - 0 anyway but its always better to see that youre players are trying and affected by the result.

[Dalgety Bay TA]

38 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I wasn't expecting Celtic to "cope" with Barca. I would just expect a manager who earns £40k a week to be able to organise a defence well enough to avoid a 7-0 defeat. 

I think the amount he earns is entirely irrelevant to this. Rodgers earning 40k a week isn't going to make Lustig or Toure or the Dane suddenly defend better, again certainly not in the short time he has had with them.

I am sure he didn't set them up to just go out and not bother defensively, I would think his professionalism will mean he had tried his best to organise them beforehand but sometimes you just have to say you can't cope with the team you are playing against. Rodgers probably earned far more than that at Liverpool and still managed to lose 6 at Stoke, Mourinho probably earned 3-4 times as much at Real, had infinitely better players at his disposal and still managed to lose 5 at Barca. None of those occasions were determined by the salary of the manager.

[neilly71]

Its just the riddy factor of being pumped 7 - 0 by anyone, in saying that Celtic are in good company. Barca beat Depotivo 8 - 0 and Valencia 7 - 0 last season, managed 5 - 0 against 4 or 5 other La Liga teams and I think took 6 off roma. Small crumbs of comfort.

[Dalgety Bay TA]

7 minutes ago, neilly71 said:

Its just the riddy factor of being pumped 7 - 0 by anyone, in saying that Celtic are in good company. Barca beat Depotivo 8 - 0 and Valencia 7 - 0 last season, managed 5 - 0 against 4 or 5 other La Liga teams and I think took 6 off roma. Small crumbs of comfort.

Yep, it is. If they play well, which they did, and you play poorly, then you can be in for a real gubbing. We won't be the first or last side to lose a lot of goals to Barca last season, this season or next season.

[Parklife]

2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

I think the amount he earns is entirely irrelevant to this.

It's not though. There's no point in getting a big name manager, complete with hefty salary, if he can't even get basics like defensive solidity right. 

Quote

Rodgers earning 40k a week isn't going to make Lustig or Toure or the Dane suddenly defend better, again certainly not in the short time he has had with them.

It's not about him having inadequate defenders though. Rangers went to the Camp Nou a few years back with a back four of Hutton, Weir, Papac & Cuellar and conceded just 2. Are these guys fantastic defenders, or were the Rangers team just better coached on team shape and defensive positioning? Obviously the higher quality the defenders you have, the easier it is to set a team up to keep clean sheets. However, IMO there is no excuse for losing 7-0. 

Quote

I am sure he didn't set them up to just go out and not bother defensively

I doubt he did either. I just think he's incapable of doing so. 

[RenfrewBlue]

2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

Yep, it is. If they play well, which they did, and you play poorly, then you can be in for a real gubbing. We won't be the first or last side to lose a lot of goals to Barca last season, this season or next season.

I think we can all agree that we expected Celtic to lose last night. There's no shame in losing when the opposition is better than you but as has been touched on, it can be accepted if you at least give of your best. Very few Celtic players did that last night, so a probable 3 or 4 goal defeat was turned into the team getting ridden like a Blackpool Donkey.

I'd also disagree with whoever said Tierney got pass marks. Only Brown managed that in my opinion. 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

21 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It's not though. There's no point in getting a big name manager, complete with hefty salary, if he can't even get basics like defensive solidity right. 

 

22 minutes ago, Parklife said:

 I just think he's incapable of doing so. 

He may well get it right. Or possibly not. However I am just prepared to give him more than 10-15 games, 2 months at the club and one doing against one of the best teams in the world before judging him. He is still largely working with players who are not necessarily his choices. The fact that he has felt the need to bring in a 36 year old centre back and a 35 year old goalie on freebies as short term fixs suggests he also knows there is plenty of work to be done

22 minutes ago, Parklife said:

It's not about him having inadequate defenders though. Rangers went to the Camp Nou a few years back with a back four of Hutton, Weir, Papac & Cuellar and conceded just 2. Are these guys fantastic defenders, or were the Rangers team just better coached on team shape and defensive positioning? 

IMO 3 of those 4 Rangers defenders you mentioned were pretty much solid as fvck defensively. Hutton was also at the peak of his upswing in form about 2007. I would go as far as to suggest that all 4 would be first choice as a back 4 at Celtic against our current back 4.

 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

41 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I think we can all agree that we expected Celtic to lose last night. There's no shame in losing when the opposition is better than you but as has been touched on, it can be accepted if you at least give of your best. Very few Celtic players did that last night, so a probable 3 or 4 goal defeat was turned into the team getting ridden like a Blackpool Donkey.

I'd also disagree with whoever said Tierney got pass marks. Only Brown managed that in my opinion. 

Maybe that was their best? No one apart from the players themselves knows if they really gave their best last night. I wouldn't imagine any professional footballer willingly wants to go and get shown up like that in a place like the Nou Camp so it suggests to me that they did give their best, it just wasn't good enough. I will point out again that this is a team that has conceded goals to most teams they have faced this season, including 4 to the Israelis over 2 legs, so its not exactly a watertight unit which defends well at this point in Rodgers reign. Therefore Barca taking a fair number of goals of them was not unexpected. I said 4 or 5 at work, it obviously ended up a couple more than that.

[Parklife]

7 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

He may well get it right. Or possibly not. However I am just prepared to give him more than 10-15 games, 2 months at the club and one doing against one of the best teams in the world before judging him.

Me too. I've given him his whole managerial career. He's incapable of organising a team defensively. 

Just for reference, his goals against record against record reads: 

Watford: 1.5 per game

Reading: 1.43 per game

Swansea: 1.23 per game

Liverpool: 1.21 per game

Celtic: 1.58 per game

Maybe he's learning and he'll improve this aspect. His sides concede a very high number of goals though. Last night wasn't the first time he'd been shown up in a game where he needed to keep it tight defensively. 

[RenfrewBlue]

19 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Me too. I've given him his whole managerial career. He's incapable of organising a team defensively. 

Just for reference, his goals against record against record reads: 

Watford: 1.5 per game

Reading: 1.43 per game

Swansea: 1.23 per game

Liverpool: 1.21 per game

Celtic: 1.58 per game

Maybe he's learning and he'll improve this aspect. His sides concede a very high number of goals though. Last night wasn't the first time he'd been shown up in a game where he needed to keep it tight defensively. 

Very interesting stats. He's obviously an attack minded manager and that generally comes with a defensive cost.

Would be interesting to see other managers figures like that, especially similar minded coaches like Warburton or Klopp. I'm sure there are others but can't think of them just now.

[Parklife]

17 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Very interesting stats. He's obviously an attack minded manager and that generally comes with a defensive cost.

Would be interesting to see other managers figures like that, especially similar minded coaches like Warburton or Klopp. I'm sure there are others but can't think of them just now.

Warburton: 

Brentford: 1.27 per game

Rangers: 0.9 per game

No stats for Klopp on Wikipedia. 

[Big Col]

thank goodness Celtic pushed through the rule change where the coefficient is based on your own performances....

[RenfrewBlue]

31 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Warburton: 

Brentford: 1.27 per game

Rangers: 0.9 per game

No stats for Klopp on Wikipedia. 

Roberto Martinez would have been an interesting comparison but no figures on wiki for him either. 

As a standard Pep Guardiola is at 0.75 goals per game across his managerial career and the includes his spell at Barca B where his stats were much worse than at all other teams.

[macy37]

How bad are Legia Warsaw?

 

[Mox]

9 hours ago, macy37 said:

How bad are Legia Warsaw?

 

Not one of the teams that got through the 'champions route' won in the first set of fixtures and a few others along with Celtic got a right good hiding. 

[wellyman]

17 hours ago, RenfrewBlue said:

I think we can all agree that we expected Celtic to lose last night. There's no shame in losing when the opposition is better than you but as has been touched on, it can be accepted if you at least give of your best. Very few Celtic players did that last night, so a probable 3 or 4 goal defeat was turned into the team getting ridden like a Blackpool Donkey.

I'd also disagree with whoever said Tierney got pass marks. Only Brown managed that in my opinion. 

I agree that only Brown got pass marks - one thing when you go to the nou camp is that your goalkeeper has to be on his game and De Vries was not, can only recall one save of note from him, i still do not get the signing of him, he is not an improvement on whats already at Parkhead.

 

[Toepoke]

4-0, 5-0, 6-0 and 7-0 humpings this week. Will be interesting to see if that trend continues...

[Caledonian Craig]

Celtic were lined up for criticism as soon as people start saying Celtic are one of the biggest clubs in the world and that they'd be a top six club in the EPL. On the first point they could be one of the biggest in the world but on the second point - no chance. Just because a club is big it does not mean it is successful or competitive in the biggest leagues.

[Glasgowmancity]

15 hours ago, Big Col said:

thank goodness Celtic pushed through the rule change where the coefficient is based on your own performances....

Celtic's co-efficient is going to increase when the new rules come in in 2018/19 due to them having won the competition in the past

[Parklife]

13 minutes ago, Glasgowmancity said:

Celtic's co-efficient is going to increase when the new rules come in in 2018/19 due to them having won the competition in the past

You're kidding?  

Do Aberdeen get a boosted co-efficient because we've won 2 European trophies?