James McFadden

[ErsatzThistle]

2 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

I do.

His goals v Holland in the play off and v France in Paris alone would put him in it.

His goals scored at Hampden against Ukraine in 2007 and Macedonia in 2009 were belters too.

[wanderer]

2 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

I do.

His goals v Holland in the play off and v France in Paris alone would put him in it.

Stewart McKimmie scored a winner against the World Champions in 1989, yet he would struggle to break into the top 100 best Scottish players.

In terms of the last 20 years, Faddy is probably top 5-ish, but in grand scheme of things have to agree with Aaid that he is not really in the same league as Dalglish, Souness, Law, Baxter, Johnstone etc......

Remember Faddy was in and out the team a lot between 2004 (just after he was sent off against Norway) and 2007 (even in the build up to his goal against France, he was not even our first choice striker, as Gary O'Connor had been used mostly over the previous 5 or 6 games) and was only as a result of the goal in Paris that he actually started to get a prolonged run as our number 1 striker.

[they've_been_suckered]

As much as I love Faddy, the way that campaign in 2007 fell apart still hurts. His goals counted for nothing besides the obvious glorious nature of them at the time. 

[AlfieMoon]

Players that can change/win a game out of nothing are few and far between and that is exactly what McFadden could do. 

Faddy was an outstanding talent and looking back on the youtube video brings back some fantastic memories and highlights the ability the guy has. 

We can sit and say that he wasn't in the same league as the top guys from the 60's/70's/80's all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that he was simply a cut above anything we've had in recent times.

Andy Ritchie was talking about him on 'Off the ball' at the weekend and got it spot on. He was saying about the ability Faddy had and his willingness to try things that other players wouldn't. That's what excites football fans. Sadly, I also have to agree what Ritchie on his opinion that it is probably being coached out of players. Everything is seen as such high-stakes in football and trying to get players into a certain mould that means that guys like McFadden and any type of flair player / someone who doesn't play the 'easy ball' gets forced to change their ways.

I watch kids coming through at St.Mirren and any time a player loses the ball trying to beat a man, or tries to switch the play and it doesn't come off you just hear the reaction of the fans getting on the players back. It'll be the same at every ground around the country! 

I remember the excitement when Faddy first got in to the squads. The word 'gallus' was correctly thrown around by the media regarding him. The Iceland away game back in 2002 (?) when he was on the bench had the tartan army buzzing about the prospect of a young kid and what he could do and develop in to. We need more of that in the game.

[aaid]

46 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Remember Faddy was in and out the team a lot between 2004 (just after he was sent off against Norway) and 2007 (even in the build up to his goal against France, he was not even our first choice striker, as Gary O'Connor had been used mostly over the previous 5 or 6 games) and was only as a result of the goal in Paris that he actually started to get a prolonged run as our number 1 striker.

If people are being honest about McFadden while he was capable of pieces of genius he was very inconsistent and was also as capable of having real stinkers.  Nature of the position and no criticism implied.

He may have been a light in the darkness at the time but all that meant was he was the best player we had - and that in itself is very debatable - during a very poor period for the national team.

Different eras and all that but it doesn't put him in the hall of fame category IMHO.

[bonny78]

his hand ball v Norway 2004 was great.

[Jacques Hunt]

35 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

Players that can change/win a game out of nothing are few and far between and that is exactly what McFadden could do. 

Faddy was an outstanding talent and looking back on the youtube video brings back some fantastic memories and highlights the ability the guy has. 

We can sit and say that he wasn't in the same league as the top guys from the 60's/70's/80's all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that he was simply a cut above anything we've had in recent times.

Andy Ritchie was talking about him on 'Off the ball' at the weekend and got it spot on. He was saying about the ability Faddy had and his willingness to try things that other players wouldn't. That's what excites football fans. Sadly, I also have to agree what Ritchie on his opinion that it is probably being coached out of players. Everything is seen as such high-stakes in football and trying to get players into a certain mould that means that guys like McFadden and any type of flair player / someone who doesn't play the 'easy ball' gets forced to change their ways.

I watch kids coming through at St.Mirren and any time a player loses the ball trying to beat a man, or tries to switch the play and it doesn't come off you just hear the reaction of the fans getting on the players back. It'll be the same at every ground around the country! 

I remember the excitement when Faddy first got in to the squads. The word 'gallus' was correctly thrown around by the media regarding him. The Iceland away game back in 2002 (?) when he was on the bench had the tartan army buzzing about the prospect of a young kid and what he could do and develop in to. We need more of that in the game.

Apart from the St Mirren bit that I cannot comment on as I do not go to their games, I agree with everything you say here. Fantastic talent and loved it when he played as I knew he could turn a game with a touch of class and something totally unexpected. Scotland legend IMO regardless of how many games he played. Been watching my nation compete for decades and Faddy's goal v Holland and that night in Paris of course are right up there with the best of my memories. 

[Parklife]

Joint 7th top Scotland goalscorer of all time, playing through an absolutely horeshite Scotland era. Better goals to games ratio that Kenny Dalglish, Kenny Miller and Ally McCoist. 

Considering how many stinkers he apparently had for Scotland, it's a wonder hos goals record is better than those above. I can only assume that Dalglish must've been having stinkers all the time.... 

[Jacques Hunt]

4 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Joint 7th top Scotland goalscorer of all time, playing through an absolutely horeshite Scotland era. Better goals to games ratio that Kenny Dalglish, Kenny Miller and Ally McCoist. 

Considering how many stinkers he apparently had for Scotland, it's a wonder hos goals record is better than those above. I can only assume that Dalglish must've been having stinkers all the time.... 

Dalglish is obviously another legend but I do recall that he used to get a bit of stick from the crowd on occasions and it was probably because he was our highest profile player playing at a top, very successful club and many fans expected him to therefore turn on the magic every game. Darren Fletcher has had some unworthy criticism for similar reasons IMO with him being at Man Utd. Playing at international level with lower profile players. 

[Parklife]

2 minutes ago, Jacques Hunt said:

Dalglish is obviously another legend but I do recall that he used to get a bit of stick from the crowd on occasions and it was probably because he was our highest profile player playing at a top, very successful club and many fans expected him to therefore turn on the magic every game. Darren Fletcher has had some unworthy criticism for similar reasons IMO with him being at Man Utd. Playing at international level with lower profile players. 

I'm not slagging off Dalglish. Just trying to make a point to folk saying he's not even a top 50 Scotland player or comparing his achievements to Stewart mckimmie scoring in a friendly. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Probably a generational thing but easily in my top 5 players 

[Jacques Hunt]

5 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I'm not slagging off Dalglish. Just trying to make a point to folk saying he's not even a top 50 Scotland player or comparing his achievements to Stewart mckimmie scoring in a friendly. 

I know you are not slagging him but I am just making a point about rose tinted memories. This thread is sliding away from original point now but you know about fickle football fans. I remember standing with my Dad at Villa Park in Euro 96 and suggesting that Craig Brown should sub Ally McCoist (vs Switzerland). then he popped up and scored a cracker. Hero.

[Jacques Hunt]

1 minute ago, Jacques Hunt said:

I know you are not slagging him but I am just making a point about rose tinted memories. This thread is sliding away from original point now but you know about fickle football fans. I remember standing with my Dad at Villa Park in Euro 96 and suggesting that Craig Brown should sub Ally McCoist (vs Switzerland). then he popped up and scored a cracker. Hero.

It was McCoist who scored the cracker, not my Dad................................

[aaid]

23 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Joint 7th top Scotland goalscorer of all time, playing through an absolutely horeshite Scotland era. Better goals to games ratio that Kenny Dalglish, Kenny Miller and Ally McCoist. 

Considering how many stinkers he apparently had for Scotland, it's a wonder hos goals record is better than those above. I can only assume that Dalglish must've been having stinkers all the time.... 

Dalglish's goal-to-game ratio is indeed poor considering the number of games he played, however he generally didn't play as an out and out striker for Scotland which explains it.  I'd be interested in seeing stats on assists, which of course they didn't record in Dalglish's era.

Also for someone who rubbishes Steven Fletcher's goalscoring record as being on the basis of him scoring six goals against Gibraltar, its probably worth pointing out that McFadden's goals include goals against the Faroes (2), Macedonia (2), Estonia, Moldova, Lithuania and Iceland - that's Iceland when they were shit, not the current Iceland.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, AlfieMoon said:

Players that can change/win a game out of nothing are few and far between and that is exactly what McFadden could do. 

Faddy was an outstanding talent and looking back on the youtube video brings back some fantastic memories and highlights the ability the guy has. 

We can sit and say that he wasn't in the same league as the top guys from the 60's/70's/80's all we want, but it doesn't change the fact that he was simply a cut above anything we've had in recent times.

Andy Ritchie was talking about him on 'Off the ball' at the weekend and got it spot on. He was saying about the ability Faddy had and his willingness to try things that other players wouldn't. That's what excites football fans. Sadly, I also have to agree what Ritchie on his opinion that it is probably being coached out of players. Everything is seen as such high-stakes in football and trying to get players into a certain mould that means that guys like McFadden and any type of flair player / someone who doesn't play the 'easy ball' gets forced to change their ways.

I watch kids coming through at St.Mirren and any time a player loses the ball trying to beat a man, or tries to switch the play and it doesn't come off you just hear the reaction of the fans getting on the players back. It'll be the same at every ground around the country! 

I remember the excitement when Faddy first got in to the squads. The word 'gallus' was correctly thrown around by the media regarding him. The Iceland away game back in 2002 (?) when he was on the bench had the tartan army buzzing about the prospect of a young kid and what he could do and develop in to. We need more of that in the game.

Excellent post.  There were a good few years where when McFadden was on the pitch anything was possible against any opposition, he just generated that level of belief.  Some great goals and great memories.

[deecie]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Probably a generational thing but easily in my top 5 players 

Yup.

He's in my top 1 of most exciting players to pull on the Scotland shirt.

[fringo]

4 minutes ago, deecie said:

Yup.

He's in my top 1 of most exciting players to pull on the Scotland shirt.

He certainly is in the last 15 years.

[Parklife]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Dalglish's goal-to-game ratio is indeed poor considering the number of games he played, however he generally didn't play as an out and out striker for Scotland which explains it.  I'd be interested in seeing stats on assists, which of course they didn't record in Dalglish's era.

Also for someone who rubbishes Steven Fletcher's goalscoring record as being on the basis of him scoring six goals against Gibraltar, its probably worth pointing out that McFadden's goals include goals against the Faroes (2), Macedonia (2), Estonia, Moldova, Lithuania and Iceland - that's Iceland when they were shit, not the current Iceland.

Will we go back and look at the world rankings differentials and aggregate score lines for Scotland in all the teams Dalglish scored against? 

I'd be willing to bet Scotland were closer to Iceland when Faddy scored than we were to a lot of the teams those above him on the scorers list scored their goals against. 

Dunno why you want to belittle what he's done for us but that's your prerogative. 

[PASTA Mick]

McFadden isn't the best player I've seen play for Scotland but he is certainly the most exciting and features in most of the best moments I've had supporting Scotland. 

It's such a shame that injuries have hindered the careers of the likes of Faddy, Fletcher, Gordon and Kennedy. They could have all done better in the game with more luck.

Snodgrass and Dorrans haven't had much luck either recently. Brown has had problems too. 

[aaid]

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

 

Dunno why you want to belittle what he's done for us but that's your prerogative. 

I'm not trying to belittle McFadden just trying to put his international career in some form of historical context.

I'd doubt if many over the age of 40 would put him in their all time Scotland 11. 

[Parklife]

24 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm not trying to belittle McFadden just trying to put his international career in some form of historical context.

I'd doubt if many over the age of 40 would put him in their all time Scotland 11. 

So by saying, and I paraphrase "he scored his goals against all these shite teams", I got the impression you were demeaning his achievements. 

I never said he'd be in my all time xi. You said he wouldn't be in the top 50 Scotland players, that's what I'm disagreeing with.  

[AlfieMoon]

24 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm not trying to belittle McFadden just trying to put his international career in some form of historical context.

I'd doubt if many over the age of 40 would put him in their all time Scotland 11. 

In fairness.... that's a fairly long period of time that we're talking about for people under 40. 

I was born in '82 and my first fuzzy memories of Scotland were attending the Italia '90 qualifiers. My earliest memories were 'Super Ally' and 'Mo, Mo, super Mo', then I liked Pat Nevin because he was wee and tricky.

Over 25 years have passed since then. Over quarter of a century - and nobody has excited like McFadden. 

I'd had loved to have been there to see the days of Dalglish and co. and actually qualifying for tournaments, but we are where we are. Faddy deserves credit (but certainly not 2 sentimental caps to get to HoF) for what he has done. 

Let's hope for some miracle that we get more like him (and even better)! 

[aaid]

31 minutes ago, Parklife said:

So by saying, and I paraphrase "he scored his goals against all these shite teams", I got the impression you were demeaning his achievements. 

To paraphrase or to misrepresent, fine line. 

[Jacques Hunt]

I am still unsure what position he played in! Saw him at East End Park before he was capped. Mesmerising left winger then but I am not sure how I would describe his position for Scotland.

Maverick perhaps.

[Parklife]

18 minutes ago, aaid said:

To paraphrase or to misrepresent, fine line. 

What was the purpose of saying McFadden scored "against..... and that was when Iceland were shit", then?