Strachan out.

[Toepoke]

23 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

I thought that we would have seven points after our first three games - which if we beat Slovakia we will. Yes - we should be beating Lithuania, but getting a win in Slovakia will, pretty much, take them out of the race for second - making it, realistically, a battle between us and Slovenia. If we win that, and the other results are as I realistically expect. The table will be this by the end of the year:

1. England - 12pts
2. Scotland - 7pts
3. Slovenia - 7pts
4. Lithuania - 5pts
5. Slovakia - 3pts
6. Malta - 0pts

In that situation, we maintain a good chance of finishing second. However, it does require us to beat Slovakia - which won't be easy. Although, we do better when we are forced to counter-attack. Today's result is not fatal.

Our group in that case could be at risk of providing the lowest ranked runner up?...

 

[Clyde1998]

Just now, Rossy said:

And if we don't win ?

Do we take stock after the next game, or the one after that ? Should we have taken stock after the Georgia game, or waited until we failed against Ireland, or lost at home to Germany, or drew with Poland ?

Do we just keep on taking stock ?

If we don't get something from Slovakia - we won't qualify, IMO. End of story. Realistically, we need to win that game though - otherwise we're dependent on getting points from the England games to have any chance.

We played Ireland away before the Georgia defeat. It was that defeat that put us out, but at that time - beating Poland still gave us the possibility of finishing third. Ireland beating Germany killed any chance of us qualifying, though. If we hadn't conceded that stoppage time goal against Poland and Ireland hadn't scored that stoppage time winner against Germany - with the results that followed, we would've finished third in that group and would've been in the play-off. Even before the Poland game, we still had a half-decent chance of qualifying.

[tattiescone69]

14 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Absolute rubbish.

Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales....even Iceland and probably 3 or 4 other countries...have weaker squads on paper than us.

What they have, and we don't have, is a coach that can get the absolute best out of their squads. And yet we're going to keep on accepting that Strachan is the best we can get ?

Fcuk me.

The best we're willing to pay for 

[kmcca5]

16 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Absolute rubbish.

Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales....even Iceland and probably 3 or 4 other countries...have weaker squads on paper than us.

What they have, and we don't have, is a coach that can get the absolute best out of their squads. And yet we're going to keep on accepting that Strachan is the best we can get ?

Fcuk me.

Wales have a weaker squad than us? 

[Clyde1998]

1 minute ago, Toepoke said:

Our group in that case could be at risk of providing the lowest ranked runner up?...

Potentially. I've got us finishing second in the group (on 16 points) based on:

• Us beating Slovakia away - which was the scenario
• England winning every game.
• Us, Slovakia and Slovenia drawing every other game between us.
• Us, Slovakia and Slovenia beating Lithuania and Malta in the remaining games against them.
• Lithuania beating Malta.

For us to avoid having a chance of being the worst second placed side in this scenario, We'd need to get a win against either Slovakia or Slovenia at home, or get points against England.

[Barney Rubble]

5 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

If we don't get something from Slovakia - we won't qualify, IMO. End of story. Realistically, we need to win that game though - otherwise we're dependent on getting points from the England games to have any chance.

We played Ireland away before the Georgia defeat. It was that defeat that put us out, but at that time - beating Poland still gave us the possibility of finishing third. Ireland beating Germany killed any chance of us qualifying, though. If we hadn't conceded that stoppage time goal against Poland and Ireland hadn't scored that stoppage time winner against Germany - with the results that followed, we would've finished third in that group and would've been in the play-off. Even before the Poland game, we still had a half-decent chance of qualifying.

Not winning in Ireland dd for us in that group.

Didn't have the guts to go for it.

Andy Murray goes for things against the odds, why cannot our football team have the gonads to take his example??

Edited October 8, 2016 by Barney Rubble

[Clyde1998]

18 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Absolute rubbish.

Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales....even Iceland and probably 3 or 4 other countries...have weaker squads on paper than us.

What they have, and we don't have, is a coach that can get the absolute best out of their squads. And yet we're going to keep on accepting that Strachan is the best we can get ?

Fcuk me.

Are you seriously suggesting that Wales have a weaker squad than us (maybe complete 23-man squad, but certainly not the people playing)? Are you seriously suggesting that Ireland do (they're comparable to us, IMO)? Northern Ireland qualified from a group we'd have qualified from. Iceland appear to be a bit like us in the 2008 qualifiers, tbf - it'll be interesting to see if they can keep that going.

[Ally Bongo]

We have a litany of managers who have thought they were more clever than anyone else and made unfathomable decisions that have aided to our failures 

Strachan is just another

Alex Ferguson - Not even putting Davie Cooper on the bench against Denmark in 1986 and using him as a sub against Germany and Uruguay when he was at his peak - and had got us there

Andy Roxburgh - playing Alan McInally instead of McCoist against Costa Rica in 1990 when he and Johnston were arguably the top two strikers in the land at the time - and had got us there

Craig Brown - again using McCoist sparingly at Euro 96 when he was still the best striker in Scotland - and had got us there

George Burley - when Kris Boyd was at his peak dropping him for Iwelumo against Norway at home

Craig Levein - the no strikers calamity and dropping McFadden who was our talisman

It just goes on and on

[Clyde1998]

3 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Not winning in Ireland dd for us in that group.

Didn't have the guts to go for it.

At the start of the campaign - we said we needed four points from Ireland and Poland, wins against Georgia and Gibraltar to finish second. We got four from Ireland, we would've had four from Poland if it wasn't for a stoppage time equaliser at Hampden. There were three points dropped in Georgia. Ireland four points from Germany screwed us over in getting third - if they'd, as expected, got nothing, we would've been third - if we didn't concede that late goal against Poland.

I don't think the Ireland game was the game that cost us third - it was the Georgia game, but we still had a chance of qualifying after that.

[Barney Rubble]

4 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

 

I don't think the Ireland game was the game that cost us third - it was the Georgia game, but we still had a chance of qualifying after that.

Win in Ireland and they were dead, do you understand that?

Edited October 8, 2016 by Barney Rubble

[Clyde1998]

12 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Win in Ireland and they were dead, do you understand that

I do understand that.

I'm saying that it wasn't that game that screwed us - it was Georgia. We didn't go into Ireland expecting a win (at least in the same way); we did for Georgia. At the start of the campaign - getting four points from Ireland was the target - and we did that.

EDIT:

• If we'd drawn with Ireland - we would've come third;
• If we'd beaten Georgia - we would've come third;
• If we'd done both - we would've come third;
• If we did neither - we would've come fourth. Which is what happened.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Clyde1998

[Doric]

Thr big worry is. Who is our next manager ?We are doomed. We are lookung at Stevie Paterson highland league types .

[romanticscot]

1 minute ago, Doric said:

Thr big worry is. Who is our next manager ?We are doomed. We are lookung at Stevie Paterson highland league types .

I'm throwing Paul Lambert's name in there.  Works with younger players and was part of the squad to make our last World Cup.  However I am hoping circumstances do not warrant that before the end of his (WGS) current contract and we get this together and make the WC.

Edited October 8, 2016 by romanticscot

[Guest faircity]

2 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

100% agree.

He's not going to go unless it gets even worse. The way the group is going so far - the four middle teams all taking points off each other - and a win on Tuesday would put us in a good place, but suggesting that right now after such a disastrous result makes me sound insane. 

Tonight was awful, and it's almost 1 step forward 3 back with Strachan. 

 

We beat england away and we are back in it too. Utter horseshit thought as It wont happen. Not a ####in chance.

[Doric]

2 hours ago, kmcca5 said:

This is why I didn't renew my SSC membership and have stopped going to Scotland Matches. Can't get excited about any potential replacements but some fresh blood. 

I am heading that way. Will give it 2more campaigns then ween myself off it by home games only.Would give it  this campaign only but with the Euros easier to qualify and 3 Hampden games in 2020 will give it to then. Fail then it will be Tenerife to the time share fraction instead of away days to chill

Edited October 8, 2016 by Doric

[andymac]

2 hours ago, Duncan Blackheart said:

Big Sam has a point to prove. Get him in.

Just stop that.

 

[fraz65]

1 hour ago, JamDav1982 said:

Northern Ireland with a relatively poor squd finished above teams with better players than them.

When have Scotland last done that?

The players are not worse than the Republic of Ireland who qualified. Are not worse than likes of Georgia and Lithuania who cant get results against.

The squad is average but other similar squads and worse are doing better than Scotland.

It is a lame excuse.

Northern Ireland have managed to qualify once in 30 years.

With three teams qualifying for the Euros, the Scotland squad would be capable of achieving this if circumstances worked in our favour. I've already acknowledged this.

I would be surprised if Northern Ireland, Iceland or even ROI were to qualify for the World Cup.

My point is that even if we had a world class manager, we wouldn't be capable of beating Lithuania at home every time. 

If you fail to acknowledge that the standard of our players is poor, then you have to argue that six managers in a row have been to blame. 

I had this argument in 2008. People on this forum seriously argued that we had some promising young players coming through who would change things.

Islam Feruz and Fraser Fyvie were used as examples. I can't see any change between now and 8 years ago. The under-21s remain mediocre and none of our players are playing for top clubs.

That's the reality and the short-termism of blaming the manager every time might provide some comfort but it isn't the underlying reason for our mediocrity.

[ParisInAKilt]

Poor performance but not much of a surprise. Strachan is failing to get the best out of the team and some of his selections are rotten. Won't be upset if and when he goes.

Edited October 8, 2016 by ParisInAKilt

[fraz65]

1 hour ago, Rossy said:

Absolute rubbish.

Northern Ireland, Ireland, Wales....even Iceland and probably 3 or 4 other countries...have weaker squads on paper than us.

What they have, and we don't have, is a coach that can get the absolute best out of their squads. And yet we're going to keep on accepting that Strachan is the best we can get ?

Fcuk me.

When did any of those sides last qualify for a World Cup?

Ireland last managed it in 2002 when they had several top players and a much better squad than the current Scotland one.

We have a really limited pool of players and no sign that this will change at any point in the future.

Qualifying for a World Cup is far beyond their capabilities i'm afraid.

[ankles]

Any failure tonight lies with the manager , not one person i know would have went with the starting 11. So we get to half time , we're doing feck all...... oh , let's get Forrest on. Naw, just feckin Naw.  Two games in we've already had a " Georgia" .  Sad to say but we've got ourselves another Levein . Get yer best 11 on the park and go with it. Let them worry about us. Smacks of a  whole load of overthinking aka Ireland away in the Euros .Utter bawz.

[Ormond]

10 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Again there is absolutely zero chance of him wanting the job again. 

Why not a foreign manager ? Why are Scottish managers somehow better ? Sticking to old conservative traditions is holding us back.

Tommy Wright.

[Handsome22Devil]

Strachan's time is up - only question for me is whether he goes after Slovakia or hangs on for the throw of the dice that is England away as clearly jammying a win there would buy him considerable credit - as managers virtually never recover from this type of pressure.

It's not actually buggering the campaign that will get him sacked (I never thought we'd get to Russia, and don't remember or know anyone who did, regardless of coach so blaming him for that seems ridiculous) but all the other things added up...the team selections, the future development (though he does deserve credit for throwing in Burke) the favourites and the banished, the needlessly antagonising the media etc. 

I definitely think it's a shame - out of the last three managers, Strachan was by far the best and the only one who gave us even a hint of going somewhere but it's done. The draw in Ireland wasn't what turned the tide (from that position in the group we should never have finished fourth and a tenner on the Georgia-Scotland/Ireland-Germany disaster double that caused it would have put a big dent in your next away trip) but the pathetic performance which didn't even look for the win was. There's been a tendency on here recently to flat out state draws away aren't good enough which is, quite frankly, nonsense for a team of our ability. But going out and looking for draws rather than looking to win - even if you end up with a draw - sums up the attitude problem which leads to difficulties elsewhere. It's too passive, too shy and too lacking in confidence to ever be successful. The Dublin effort was the start of unravelling good work of the two years before (and there was plenty of good work the two years before, though that is easily now forgotten or ignored) and led us to where we are now.

For all that, I can't bring myself to join the lynch mob this time...I just don't get wound up about it any more when there's absolutely nothing to suggest it making any difference. The pub/online arguments about Hanley or Berra, McArthur or Fletcher, Martin or anyone etc are all good fun but let's not kid ourselves getting these right or wrong is the difference between winning or losing (Forrest and Griffiths main contributions when coming on last night were missing two gimmies).

After 20 years of being shite it's not one coach or other that's the problem and regardless of who is appointed I'd put good money on us being at this stage of the cycle again three years from now.

[Bristolhibby]

It's the cretins in charge at the SFA that need to go, root and branch reform, top down and bottom up.

Its no coincidence in 2003 Iceland tore up their structure and started again, with a STRATEGY that got them to the quarter finals of the Euros.

You can wheel out any manager, but if the architecture isn't in place, we as a footballing country will never progress. Successive managers have proven this.

Read this really great article.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

J

[thplinth]

Rightly or wrongly I am starting to see that stupid arrogance he displays when answering questions in everything he does now. 

[Handsome22Devil]

8 minutes ago, Bristolhibby said:

It's the cretins in charge at the SFA that need to go, root and branch reform, top down and bottom up.

Its no coincidence in 2003 Iceland tore up their structure and started again, with a STRATEGY that got them to the quarter finals of the Euros.

You can wheel out any manager, but if the architecture isn't in place, we as a footballing country will never progress. Successive managers have proven this.

Read this really great article.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/08/iceland-stunning-rise-euro-2016-gylfi-sigurdsson-lars-lagerback

J

Iceland is a brilliant story but it contains absolutely no relevance to us sadly - the stuff they have (pitches and trained coaches) comes from a willingness to invest which simply doesn't exist in Scotland. After all this time, we have how many indoor pitches? Look at the reaction to the Murrays trying to build the tennis academy - not on our doorstep, thanks - it's just not going to happen.