Media turning on Strachan?

[HUNTINGMcGREGOR]

 

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

Decent read. If Ewan Murray wasn't so obsessed with talking about attendances on Twitter, i'd think he was pretty intelligent. 

Yeh, decent read. Bored. I think we are all getting too much into micro mgt and playing Pro Ev Soccer manager or whatever. 

maybe the TAMB should run the team and decide on the players - I reckon we can turn this - with or without a Manager.

:-(

It's about punching above our weight - that is all we need - this was the first ever group I thought, yeh, we have a chance here.

Early days, bored with the calcs, points will be lost along the way.

Keep cool and see how it goes. 

 

[Squirrelhumper]

15 hours ago, fraz65 said:

The example you've chosen is a side who haven't qualified for a World Cup since 1986- this was before the breakup of Eastern Europe.

They haven't really come close to World Cup qualification since then. 

We must be the unluckiest nation in the world. Six poor managerial appointments in eighteen years preventing an able squad of players fulfilling their destiny. 

 

We never had 6 poor ones, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

We missed out in 2008 by a bawhair and in a group that included the world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. Smith and McLeish weren't bad appointments. 

Berti got us to a play off and got beaten (soundly) by a brilliant Dutch side. He was terribly treated by the press. 

The other 3 were useless. 

Northern Ireland, Iceland, Ireland, Wales et al have squads made up of championship players (and worse) and lower end EPL players yet still have qualified whilst we haven't.

All have competent managers though, we don;t.

[Angus_Young]

12 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

We never had 6 poor ones, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

We missed out in 2008 by a bawhair and in a group that included the world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. Smith and McLeish weren't bad appointments. 

Berti got us to a play off and got beaten (soundly) by a brilliant Dutch side. He was terribly treated by the press. 

The other 3 were useless. 

Northern Ireland, Iceland, Ireland, Wales et al have squads made up of championship players (and worse) and lower end EPL players yet still have qualified whilst we haven't.

All have competent managers though, we don;t.

Nail. On. Head. 

[ProudScot]

12 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

We never had 6 poor ones, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

We missed out in 2008 by a bawhair and in a group that included the world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. Smith and McLeish weren't bad appointments. 

Berti got us to a play off and got beaten (soundly) by a brilliant Dutch side. He was terribly treated by the press. 

The other 3 were useless. 

Northern Ireland, Iceland, Ireland, Wales et al have squads made up of championship players (and worse) and lower end EPL players yet still have qualified whilst we haven't.

All have competent managers though, we don;t.

Great post

[thplinth]

If McLeish had Levein's draws we would definitely have went to at least one tournament IMHO maybe more. He was in the job less than a year before offered big money far in excess of his Scotland wage. Was Levein? Will Strachan? Naw.

This is the problem with the SFA - they always pay peanuts so when a manager does even slightly well he will be poached before we know it. It is a catch 22 situation - the only ones we can keep are the ones who want to cling to the job as they know it may be their last - and the good one we lose in less than 12 months blown out the water pay wise by Birmingham.

Edited October 12, 2016 by thplinth

[PASTA Mick]

Vogts was a terrible manager. He may have got us to the play-offs but we only finished 1 point ahead of a terrible Iceland team after losing to Lithuania and drawing with Faroe Islands. 

[ProudScot]

3 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Vogts was a terrible manager. He may have got us to the play-offs but we only finished 1 point ahead of a terrible Iceland team after losing to Lithuania and drawing with Faroe Islands. 

Need to take into account how poor a squad Vogts had after retirals and Brown's insistance on picking guys about 30 for the majority of his years in charge - Was light years behind the team we have now even.

[Return of Yermaw]

10 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Vogts was a terrible manager. He may have got us to the play-offs but we only finished 1 point ahead of a terrible Iceland team after losing to Lithuania and drawing with Faroe Islands. 

i agree. i think Vogts is still the worst we have had. maybe a dearth of talent available to him but if no one thinks those friendly and occasional qualifier performances under Vigts were the worst they had seen then i question whether they actually were at or watched the games. even the current poor performances under strachan and the worst of Levein and Burley were nothing compared to Vogts. 

[Parklife]

3 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

i agree. i think Vogts is still the worst we have had. maybe a dearth of talent available to him but if no one thinks those friendly and occasional qualifier performances under Vigts were the worst they had seen then i question whether they actually were at or watched the games. even the current poor performances under strachan and the worst of Levein and Burley were nothing compared to Vogts. 

Until Saturday i'd always felt that our friendly defeat at home to Hungary and over win vs Liechtenstein were my low points following Scotland.

Lithuania being more technically proficient and better coached than us, on our home patch, was worse.  

[Dunoon_Ton]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

We never had 6 poor ones, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

We missed out in 2008 by a bawhair and in a group that included the world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. Smith and McLeish weren't bad appointments. 

Berti got us to a play off and got beaten (soundly) by a brilliant Dutch side. He was terribly treated by the press. 

The other 3 were useless. 

Northern Ireland, Iceland, Ireland, Wales et al have squads made up of championship players (and worse) and lower end EPL players yet still have qualified whilst we haven't.

All have competent managers though, we don;t.

Totally agree, yes Georgia away was a disaster, but you only have to remember the crowds & the desperation for tickets for that campaign to see how support has dwindled since then.  Also don't forget that we won the home game against the Dutch as well 1-0, made an absolute Helen Hunt of the return leg right enough.

[fraz65]

11 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

We never had 6 poor ones, you are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

We missed out in 2008 by a bawhair and in a group that included the world cup winners, runners up and quarter finalists. Smith and McLeish weren't bad appointments. 

Berti got us to a play off and got beaten (soundly) by a brilliant Dutch side. He was terribly treated by the press. 

The other 3 were useless. 

Northern Ireland, Iceland, Ireland, Wales et al have squads made up of championship players (and worse) and lower end EPL players yet still have qualified whilst we haven't.

All have competent managers though, we don;t.

1. The 2008 squad was significantly stronger than the current one (most played for decent Old Firm sides or in the Premiership)

2. It could be argued that if Strachan had left after a similar period in charge to Smith and McLeish (17 and 10 games respectively), he would have been viewed historically as a success.

3. None of the sides you mention have qualified for a World Cup since Ireland in 2002, when Roy and Robbie Keane were at the peak of their careers.

4. I don't think that Northern Ireland would have qualified from our Euro 2016 group. Poland and Germany are better than the sides you mention, with the possible exception of Wales.

5. Can we do better than losing 3-0 to Slovakia? Of course we can, however there are much bigger issues here than simply changing our manager.

 

[JamDav1982]

55 minutes ago, fraz65 said:

1. The 2008 squad was significantly stronger than the current one (most played for decent Old Firm sides or in the Premiership)

2. It could be argued that if Strachan had left after a similar period in charge to Smith and McLeish (17 and 10 games respectively), he would have been viewed historically as a success.

3. None of the sides you mention have qualified for a World Cup since Ireland in 2002, when Roy and Robbie Keane were at the peak of their careers.

4. I don't think that Northern Ireland would have qualified from our Euro 2016 group. Poland and Germany are better than the sides you mention, with the possible exception of Wales.

5. Can we do better than losing 3-0 to Slovakia? Of course we can, however there are much bigger issues here than simply changing our manager.

 

The 2008 squad wasnt significantly stronger than this one at all.

Northern Ireland qualified by beating teams that had better squad. They punched above their weight with a poorer squad than Scotland and got there. 

Strachan has not finished above any country with a better squad and it is heading that way again.

It is not all about qualifying for world cups it is about wanting a manager that gives us the best chance. Gets us plying a system the players seem to understand. At the very least consistently beat the teams you should be beating. If that happens and Scotland still dont qualify then fair enough.

There is a big difference between not qualifying for a World Cup and being seen as a failure. Strachan has been a failure and needs to go.

[fraz65]

1 minute ago, JamDav1982 said:

The 2008 squad wasnt significantly stronger than this one at all.

Really?

[JamDav1982]

Just now, fraz65 said:

Really?

Yeah.

How many regular English Premier League players played in the 1-0 win at home to France?

[dezmondo]

12 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Vogts was a terrible manager. He may have got us to the play-offs but we only finished 1 point ahead of a terrible Iceland team after losing to Lithuania and drawing with Faroe Islands. 

Iceland were not a terrible side. 

He got a draw at home to Germany.

We beat Netherlands at home .

I'd be quite happy to finish just 1 point ahead of a terrible Slovakia side..

[fraz65]

8 minutes ago, JamDav1982 said:

Yeah.

How many regular English Premier League players played in the 1-0 win at home to France?

If you compared the starting line-up versus Ukraine with the side who played Slovakia, how many of the current side would you pick?

[JamDav1982]

Snodgrass, McCarthur, Fletcher, Robertson are up there as some of their sides best performers in England.

A 19 year old that became Scotlands most expensive player ever.

1 minute ago, fraz65 said:

If you compared the starting line-up versus Ukraine with the side who played Slovakia, how many of the current side would you pick?

Based on performances for Scotland or in England?

Players like Snodgrass will have a better season this season than anything McFadden did in England. 

Mcarthur is seen as one of Crystal Palace top performers as is Robertson at Hull.

Fletcher is WBA captain.

The English Premier League players we have now are performing as a whole than the ones we had in that win vs France etc. Just not for Scotland. That is on Strachan.

[fraz65]

17 minutes ago, JamDav1982 said:

Yeah.

How many regular English Premier League players played in the 1-0 win at home to France?

Five- Christian Dailly, Davie Weir, James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Lee McCulloch.

Craig Gordon joined Sunderland a few months later.

Alan Hutton became right back mid way through the campaign and played in the Premiership for years, as did Gary Naismith, who was left back for most of the campaign.

The Rangers players were part of a side that reached the UEFA cup final around that time as well.

Edited October 13, 2016 by fraz65

[JamDav1982]

Marshal, Robertson, Fletcher, Mcarthur and Snodgrass last night.

Those five been playing more important roles for their club sides down in England than players you mention. Dailly wasnt a regular by then anyway.

If you want to compare man for man that team that beat Ukraine to the one that played last night for performances in England then majority compare favourably.

We beat Ukraine with Pearson and Caldwell in midfield and last night had the WBA captain and one of Crystal Palace top performers in Macarthur.

[Guest BlueGaz]

Was listening to the radio last night on way home, did Strachan have a go at a journalist the other day because he wasn't a football man, or something like that?

 

[vanderark14]

4 minutes ago, BlueGaz said:

Was listening to the radio last night on way home, did Strachan have a go at a journalist the other day because he wasn't a football man, or something like that?

 

Strachan keeps referring to football experts and non experts. The football experts know we are still in with a chance. Aye ok Gordon, you've lost the plot pal

[BremnerLorimerGray]

16 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Strachan keeps referring to football experts and non experts. The football experts know we are still in with a chance. Aye ok Gordon, you've lost the plot pal

 

It is starting to grate with me, the increase in managers who dismiss people who haven't had careers as players as having insignificant opinions.  Given that those who usually work this angle are struggling in their job usually because of their prehistoric attitudes towards modern football, it says a lot.

[vanderark14]

Just now, BremnerLorimerGray said:

 

It is starting to grate with me, the increase in managers who dismiss people who haven't had careers as players as having insignificant opinions.  Given that those who usually work this angle are struggling in their job usually because of their prehistoric attitudes towards modern football, it says a lot.

The worst culprit is Steven Pressley, he's always on about people who've played the game or people who have managed know what he means, he's wired to the same moon as Strachan 

[bossman4]

Tom English has been highly critical of him for a while and I heard his post match comments last night. Acknowledges that the defence is an issue but says that a better manager would get so much more out of that squad.

Steve Thompson appears to be the only pundit who seems to be turning or has turned on him based on his comments on BBC.

[Caledonian Craig]

10 hours ago, fraz65 said:

Five- Christian Dailly, Davie Weir, James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Lee McCulloch.

Craig Gordon joined Sunderland a few months later.

Alan Hutton became right back mid way through the campaign and played in the Premiership for years, as did Gary Naismith, who was left back for most of the campaign.

The Rangers players were part of a side that reached the UEFA cup final around that time as well.

Key positions are centre of defence. Weir and Dailly were solid whilst Martin and Hanley are sub-standard. The difference between that pairing is large. Fletcher was younger, fitter and more of a growing influence than now when he is more of a shrinking violet. Faddy was talismanic and Snoddy has been likened to him but both had their off games for us.

For me defence is everything for us. We have never been a nation of prolific goalscorers - you can tell that by looking at our list of all-time top scorers and lack of goals they have compared to other nations. Therefore, if our defence is threadbare we are in trouble - as we are now.