Bye bye Gordon

[dave]

As a Northern Ireland fan looking in on this I'm amazed at how badly things have went for Strachan. 

MON came in after Worthington and totally changed the style of play. Results in the WCQ were pretty poor but the performances were reasonably good and supporters could see some progress. Consistency in the style of play, selection and at the same time giving some inexperienced players game time. My only gripe with MON is that he's a bit negative at times with his selections against the bigger nations. Why he continually picks Josh ahead of Grigg is baffling!!!

Having watched a lot of your games with my Scottish brother in law I don't see any progress to be honest apart from him being consistently stubborn and loyal to some players who clearly do not deserve to be in the side.   I'm stunned that Griffiths doesn't start ahead of Martin and Fletcher. Why was Burke dropped- his pace would be invaluable away from home, what do Bannan and Snodgrass offer? Why does McCormack not get into the squad?

His aftermatch interviews are awful and wish he'd stop being a smart arse and be honest for a change. His interviews are embarrassing and in contrast to the other four managers from these Isles. If he can't change or is too stubborn to change then he won't be around much longer.

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

14 hours ago, Toepoke said:

No he went back to managing Aberdeen. Was only in temporary charge til after the World Cup.

 

Of couse he did ...duh as wanted to concentrate on that job then promptly departed for United.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, gaz7 said:

last night was grim no other words for it the 2nd goal defenders hopeless and then 3 midfielders all standing in line with penalty spot. same at 1st goal with about 5 on line. then corner when our centre half martin was outwith the area of the goalposts at a corner. unbelievable jeff as the saying goes. also i am still raging that burke wasnt even stripped we had no one until griffiths came on that would run behind their defence. i had this discussion after sat game with some idiot saying he burke was lazy in defence, he is a direct runner not a fkn right back who caused problems and panic whenever he had a run at lithuania on saturday. Everyone in football knows that pace is a godsend if your players have it and in this day and age players who can run at defenders and beat them or get you up the pitch are the same. we had not one bit of pace in the team last night and as much as i like snodgrass i dont think ive ever seen him play wide left. Strachan needs to go and he needs to explain why no burke/griffiths/or robertson who i have heard was injured but not confirmed. we had 2 goalkeepers on subs bench but not a £13 million player in the bundesliga. Anyone who just came back from the moon would say our manager must be undercover working for slovakia fa. And end of rant but i was in faro last year and it was embarrasing so all you fannys who cheered him and who just go for the party can also fk off coz in my view people like yourselves have helped bring this great game that we used to be good at to the levels that we are now at with no optimism and just general doom and gloom and some of you should be on a political board also.

Your post could have been made at end of Burley's, Levein's or Vogts reign for that matter. Aye right so all of those manager's were incompetent and players were good enough to get us to qualify? No I think not.

 

Why are we where we are now?

 

International football has changed and we have regressed. When we use to qualify we had a pool of players playing in the top flight of England or Scotland and one or two abroad. Our club sides were also able to go deep into Europe - not anymore. And when Strachan goes who are these players, these world beaters he has overlooked? There aren't any. We just aren't good enough and qualification deteriorated as well when our seedings dropped.

[Dogbiscuit]

This from the BBC site says it all for me. The writing's on the wall for Strachan.

 

Problems mount for Gordon Strachan's side

 

Since defeating the Republic of Ireland at Celtic Park in November 2014, Scotland have played nine competitive matches and won only three of them - against Gibraltar, twice, and Malta. There have been defeats to Germany, Georgia and Slovakia, and damaging draws away to the Republic of Ireland and at home to Poland and Lithuania.

Under Strachan, Scotland have failed to deliver a defining victory over a leading side in their group, or when it was needed most. At the critical moment, there has been a collapse of will. In Dublin, in Tbilisi and in Trvana, Scotland have performed poorly, failing to assert themselves, to play with confidence or poise.

When Strachan's side defeated Ireland at Celtic Park, the display merged conviction with spirit and aplomb. The players performed, they refused to buckle under the pressure. That was thought to be a reflection of the progress the manager was making, but instead it has turned out to be the high watermark.

He has not found that balance of endeavour, ability and heart when he has needed it again. That is why it is legitimate to wonder if another manager could. Scotland's results once told of Strachan having improved the team; they now tell of a side that is losing its way.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Dogbiscuit

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Your post could have been made at end of Burley's, Levein's or Vogts reign for that matter. Aye right so all of those manager's were incompetent and players were good enough to get us to qualify? No I think not.

 

Why are we where we are now?

 

International football has changed and we have regressed. When we use to qualify we had a pool of players playing in the top flight of England or Scotland and one or two abroad. Our club sides were also able to go deep into Europe - not anymore. And when Strachan goes who are these players, these world beaters he has overlooked? There aren't any. We just aren't good enough and qualification deteriorated as well when our seedings dropped.

There are a few internationals sides who don't have teams in their domestic league going far in Europe so that point is irrelevant 

nobody said we have world beaters, you keep repeating shite like this but nobody thinks it.  there are players being overlooked because Strachan has set his stall out with one system which does not work. He continues to overlook players who have a real goal threat in favour of shite like Chris Martin. 

not one of us expects us to be world beaters if/when Strachan goes but we do expect someone to organise us into a passionate, proud and conpetent side who will give everything. 

[gaz7]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Your post could have been made at end of Burley's, Levein's or Vogts reign for that matter. Aye right so all of those manager's were incompetent and players were good enough to get us to qualify? No I think not.

 

Why are we where we are now?

 

International football has changed and we have regressed. When we use to qualify we had a pool of players playing in the top flight of England or Scotland and one or two abroad. Our club sides were also able to go deep into Europe - not anymore. And when Strachan goes who are these players, these world beaters he has overlooked? There aren't any. We just aren't good enough and qualification deteriorated as well when our seedings dropped.

never said we had worldbeaters but the 3 players i mentioned i feel all of them should have been playing he hasnt given a reason why and neither can you. robertson motm on sat.burke most dangerous on sat.griffiths top goalscorer by miles in domestic games and more efforts than other 2 put together in a  fraction of time the other 2 had in last games. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Of course Strachan should go but what was the problem last night and Saturday? Rank rotten defensive positioning, failing to track back and crap final deliveries into box and poor finishing. Look at the players for those faults as once they cross that white line it is up to them.

 

Fans do make me laugh. After the Malta match Snoddy was hailed as the saviour and returning hero and how much we missed him and two games later there are people leaping up saying what does he offer the side etc etc etc. Smart arses really after the fact.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, gaz7 said:

never said we had worldbeaters but the 3 players i mentioned i feel all of them should have been playing he hasnt given a reason why and neither can you. robertson motm on sat.burke most dangerous on sat.griffiths top goalscorer by miles in domestic games and more efforts than other 2 put together in a  fraction of time the other 2 had in last games. 

Robertson had an achilles problem. Griffiths, I take your point, but we are still waiting to see him ruffle the back of the net after nine games. Burke I take your point though. That was an odd one indeed.

[gaz7]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Of course Strachan should go but what was the problem last night and Saturday? Rank rotten defensive positioning, failing to track back and crap final deliveries into box and poor finishing. Look at the players for those faults as once they cross that white line it is up to them.

 

Fans do make me laugh. After the Malta match Snoddy was hailed as the saviour and returning hero and how much we missed him and two games later there are people leaping up saying what does he offer the side etc etc etc. Smart arses really after the fact.

yes he was poor both games but i watch a lot of football and have never seen him play wide left for leeds,norwich,hull or scotland until weekend and last night and that is down to strachan.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, gaz7 said:

yes he was poor both games but i watch a lot of football and have never seen him play wide left for leeds,norwich,hull or scotland until weekend and last night and that is down to strachan.

Many of Snoddy's assists come from his ability to whip in great crosses - do believe he does that a lot for Hull and was how he scored his first V Malta. I do take your point but I stand by what I say about fans. They go from hero to zero with opinions on players in the blink of an eye.

[gaz7]

yes i am with you on that and i am also hurting the same as yourself and most of TA but and this is the thing there are a lot who will not be bothered coz they have had a piss up abroad and they are the ones who will be on here know f a about football and get everyone falling out. we need to be a threat but gordon who (i was glad when he became manager) wants us to play like all the top teams 4-2-3-1 when we dont have good enough players to do it. Griffiths and burke are our main threats and snoddy to a lesser extent we need to utilise them all. our main threat from gordons perspective i feel is our left backs! enough said.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, gaz7 said:

yes i am with you on that and i am also hurting the same as yourself and most of TA but and this is the thing there are a lot who will not be bothered coz they have had a piss up abroad and they are the ones who will be on here know f a about football and get everyone falling out. we need to be a threat but gordon who (i was glad when he became manager) wants us to play like all the top teams 4-2-3-1 when we dont have good enough players to do it. Griffiths and burke are our main threats and snoddy to a lesser extent we need to utilise them all. our main threat from gordons perspective i feel is our left backs! enough said.

I won't disagree with much of that. I am just one of those that feels like a punch drunk boxer who has suffered years of punishment, went through a string of different trainers but nothing changes.

[sbcmfc]

15 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Robertson had an achilles problem. Griffiths, I take your point, but we are still waiting to see him ruffle the back of the net after nine games. Burke I take your point though. That was an odd one indeed.

To be fair, how many of Griffiths 9 appearances have been off the bench? 6 or 7 I'd guess.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

To be fair, how many of Griffiths 9 appearances have been off the bench? 6 or 7 I'd guess.

Yes but this is a player fans reckon is the bees knees so that should be enough. After all Chris Martin is the devil incarnate and has 2 goals in 10 games (four starts for him) and Griffiths in 0 goals in 9 games (two starts for him) but that worrying stat of no goals stands.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Caledonian Craig

[Parklife]

20 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but this is a player fans reckon is the bees knees so that should be enough. 

Feck me. You don't actually read what folk say, do you? No one thinks he's "the bees knees". Folk just see a guy who's a proven goalscorer and want to see him given a chance. No one thinks he is Gerd Muller incarnate.  

[glasgow jock]

3 hours ago, dave said:

As a Northern Ireland fan looking in on this I'm amazed at how badly things have went for Strachan. 

MON came in after Worthington and totally changed the style of play. Results in the WCQ were pretty poor but the performances were reasonably good and supporters could see some progress. Consistency in the style of play, selection and at the same time giving some inexperienced players game time. My only gripe with MON is that he's a bit negative at times with his selections against the bigger nations. Why he continually picks Josh ahead of Grigg is baffling!!!

Having watched a lot of your games with my Scottish brother in law I don't see any progress to be honest apart from him being consistently stubborn and loyal to some players who clearly do not deserve to be in the side.   I'm stunned that Griffiths doesn't start ahead of Martin and Fletcher. Why was Burke dropped- his pace would be invaluable away from home, what do Bannan and Snodgrass offer? Why does McCormack not get into the squad?

His aftermatch interviews are awful and wish he'd stop being a smart arse and be honest for a change. His interviews are embarrassing and in contrast to the other four managers from these Isles. If he can't change or is too stubborn to change then he won't be around much longer.

 

 

Sensible post Dave - glad to hear that it's not only (most of) us, that think Strachan is a smart arsed wee ##### (though he's not a smart as he thinks he is) !!!

[Squirrelhumper]

53 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Of course Strachan should go but what was the problem last night and Saturday? Rank rotten defensive positioning, failing to track back and crap final deliveries into box and poor finishing. Look at the players for those faults as once they cross that white line it is up to them.

 

Fans do make me laugh. After the Malta match Snoddy was hailed as the saviour and returning hero and how much we missed him and two games later there are people leaping up saying what does he offer the side etc etc etc. Smart arses really after the fact.

Biggest smart on here is you, it's your opinion or nothing else. Always the same, no matter the subject. You just try to bore folk into submission by posting the same guff each post until folk stop arguing with you.

You totally dismiss the fact that a competent manager is a huge contributor to the performances of the side. Look at Man Utd since Ferguson left as an example, NI under MON, Wales under Coleman. 

Nobody is saying we've an amazing squad but they are severely hamstrung by the manager at present. 

P.S Haven't seen many slagging Snoddy, well apart from the NI fan above. 

[Squirrelhumper]

55 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

 take your point, but we are still waiting to see him ruffle the back of the net after nine games. 

There you go again, 9 games. How many starts.

You can twist facts to suit your agenda pretty well, i'll give you that. 

[Squirrelhumper]

38 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but this is a player fans reckon is the bees knees so that should be enough. After all Chris Martin is the devil incarnate and has 2 goals in 10 games (four starts for him) and Griffiths in 0 goals in 9 games (two starts for him) but that worrying stat of no goals stands.

Eh? Folk think he's unfairly treated.

Start him against sh1te like Gibraltar and Malta and he'd have more goals than superstar Martin. 

[Diego10]

33 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes but this is a player fans reckon is the bees knees so that should be enough. After all Chris Martin is the devil incarnate and has 2 goals in 10 games (four starts for him) and Griffiths in 0 goals in 9 games (two starts for him) but that worrying stat of no goals stands.

Griffiths has started 3 games.  Away to Croatia, where we got a brilliant result and he played very well and was involved in the goal.

Home to Belgium, where we got absolutely chased and he got an hour chasing shadows.

Home to Denmark in a friendly where he had a pretty average hour before being subbed.  His other appearances have been a succession of 15 minute cameos in games we've largely been chasing and created very little in.  5 competitive appearances totalling just over 180 minutes in a period where he has about 100 club goals.

Martin has started against Gibraltar, Malta and Lithuania, contributing a header from 6 inches and a virtual tap in against Malta.  His last two starts have come during a period where he hasn't scored a club goal in about 7 months.  Generally he's a complete carthorse.His only other contribution was a complete sitter against Ireland at Celtic Park.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Biggest smart on here is you, it's your opinion or nothing else. Always the same, no matter the subject. You just try to bore folk into submission by posting the same guff each post until folk stop arguing with you.

You totally dismiss the fact that a competent manager is a huge contributor to the performances of the side. Look at Man Utd since Ferguson left as an example, NI under MON, Wales under Coleman. 

Nobody is saying we've an amazing squad but they are severely hamstrung by the manager at present. 

P.S Haven't seen many slagging Snoddy, well apart from the NI fan above. 

Read the posts. It is heaving with opinions on who is pish (player-wise). Bannan is an example - exulted after Malta game and slated last night. Don't see posters owning up how wrong they were about certain players. I suppose it is easier posting up comments and they get forgotten in mist of time then by the next game same posters come back with a totally different opinion of that same player after a bad game.

As for Fergie, well can we call Mourinho rank rotten then as he doesn't look like matching Fergie. My point on managers is that Strachan, Smith and Vogts all came into the job with impressive CV's in club football and Vogts had success at international level. So how come they all failed for Scotland?? Maybe one I'd agree is down to their incompetence but not all three. That says there is a far deeper core problem.

People questioning Snoddy around me at Hamden on Saturday and in the press as well.

[SteveMcD]

Strachan & Smith had blank cheque-books in the SPL. Berti Vogts took Bayer Leverkusen to a Champions League spot.

Not exactly the glowing, sorry impressive CV's you keep going on about.

Edited October 12, 2016 by SteveMcD

[Parklife]

Walter Smith "failed for Scotland"? Eh? He took over halfway through a campaign that was already over and left half way through the next, when we were in an excellent position to qualify. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, SteveMcD said:

Strachan & Smith had blank cheque-books in the SPL. Berti Vogts took Bayer Leverkusen to a Champions League spot.

Not exactly the glowing, sorry impressive CV's you keep going on about.

Granted about blank cheque books but other Celtic and Rangers managers before and since have had the same conditions and not fared as well. Strachan also took Southampton to their first FA Cup final in over 30 years and Smith fared well at Everton as well and Vogts won tournament with Germany as boss so are you still preferring the line that all three were incompetent? 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Walter Smith "failed for Scotland"? Eh? He took over halfway through a campaign that was already over and left half way through the next, when we were in an excellent position to qualify. 

Point taken but he left before completing what he started. Also lets not forget he, like Strachan, suffered a loss in Georgia that ended up costing us qualification.