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We do need change, thats for sure. but for me it's in midfield that we need it, not necessarily at the back.

if we break down the goals..

for the first.. i'm not actually going to blame tierney as i think the commentary team did. tierney has his man and is marking him. the guy who heas back across arrives later and is completely unmarked. Darren Fletcher has been busy ball watching and ignored the guy just over his shoulder, Snodgrass is ignoring the same guy who's just infront of him. As the ball goes across Matt Ritchie is jogging back, looking at Mak all alone, but just carries on waiting for the ball to be cleared instead of getting back and pressuring Mak. The back 4 aren't actually doing very much wrong.

The 2nd goal. Ritchie's gone walkabout, meaning Paterson is 2v1 on our right. Fletcher has a clear view of it and should be sending McArthur over to help him (or going there himself). Neither of those things happen, Fletcher stays central, marking space. When to ball goes out wide, McArthur can see the overload, but has zero urgency to close the gap and help Paterson out, even tho Paterson has been shouting for support from him. Paterson gets done by the 2v1 (no blame on him for that) and the ball comes across. Fletcher is still marking space and ball watching. Why he's not back on the man no one will ever know, the guy is in his field of vision, it's just a total lack of awareness. Ritchie's stood next to him, doesn't see it eaither and only reacts to the danger after it's too late. Again the positions of the back 4 aren't that bad, they just have zero support from the midfield who are simply not aware enough or not working hard enough or both.

The third is rubbish and Hanley I'm sure will hold his hands up for that one.

So for me, it's not the back line that's the problem. Berra should probably be in ahead of Hanley who has made mistakes in all 3 qualifiers so far. Bera's playing every week and you can't just pick Hanley regardless of what he's doing on the pitch.

What need to change is the midfield.

Ritchie, delivers a good cross sometimes, but doesn't work hard enough defensively. Anya's crossing is fairly abysmal, but he will put a shift in defensively and give us the pace to break.
Darren Fletcher is done. He's not running, he's not marking, he's not organising, he passed it to their forwards in our penalty area more than once. We have other options.. McGinn, Bridcutt, McDonald, Shinnie. These guys are all at least 5 years younger than Fletcher and can't do any worse.
Bannan has been hit and miss. We should probably go for the more consistent Morrison for now, Bannan still has something to offer I'm sure, despite the poor game he had last night. Fulton and Cairney need looked at.
McArthur is in no way an attacking mid. He offered nothing, not even a desire to defend when in that position. If we want a defensive mid, we have other options and need to look at them. Players who will put the required shift in every time. If we want an attacking mid, then we better options there as well.
Snodgrass, still better thru the middle imo, but it does feel like we need to go with 2 up top and so where does Snoddy fit in that. He doesn't have the pace we need to play wide, where Burke, Anya, and Johnny Russell would do well. We could use him as a 10. But we might be better off with 2 true strikers in there instead.. Rhodes, McCormack, Griffiths, Fletcher.

I guess the problem is that our next fixture in England. How much are we willing to experiment against a side which, while it's playing rubbish, could sort itself out for 1 game and really punish us it we experiment too much.
 

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We,the fans can do something about this. 

Next home game,boycott. 

I understand season tickets have been purchased,but surely a sub 10,000 crowd will make the hierarchy take notice that there are major problems in our game. 

But it won't happen because the sfa know they have loyal lapdogs that will pay anything and turn up regardless. 

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47 minutes ago, runningtings said:

The other bit that gets me is the laughable idea that Pressley had provided intelligence on how they play???

WTF. Surely we should have known that Mak and Hamsik drop into the gaps then, surely we should have worked on how to stop them?

No, Strachan knows best with his rigid and failed formation.

Never thought I'd see that in the same sentence ! :o  :lol:

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1 hour ago, runningtings said:

WTF. Surely we should have known that Mak and Hamsik drop into the gaps then, surely we should have worked on how to stop them?

No, Strachan knows best with his rigid and failed formation.

Well, we started the game with Darren Fletcher seemingly doing a man marking job on Hamsik.. just somewhere along the way he decided to stop doing it.

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Just now, andyD said:

Well, we started the game with Darren Fletcher seemingly doing a man marking job on Hamsik.. just somewhere along the way he decided to stop doing it.

I've got a lot of time for fletcher, but he wasn't fit, so shouldn't have played last night.

(it's admirable that he still wanted to, but didn't do us any favours.)

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1 hour ago, dandydunn said:

We,the fans can do something about this. 

Next home game,boycott. 

I understand season tickets have been purchased,but surely a sub 10,000 crowd will make the hierarchy take notice that there are major problems in our game. 

But it won't happen because the sfa know they have loyal lapdogs that will pay anything and turn up regardless. 

I hate the idea of this but starting to think its the only way we will see meaningful change and get rid of the dinosaurs controlling our game. nothing else seems to have an affect.

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5 hours ago, Parklife said:

ARGGGHHHHH. 

This frustrates me no end. Why do people think a formation can only be played one way? Having 1 up front isn't an issue, it's the way we utilise the 4-2-3-1 that Strachan so loves that is the issue. 

The way we play this completely isolates the lone striker. We launch long balls to him and even if he manages to hold it up or get a flick on, he's so isolated that we lose the ball anyway. Which results in us retreating towards our own goal, before playing another long ball, where the same happens again and again and again. 

The deeper of our midfield 2 should provide solidity, protect the defence, give the defenders an easier passs out from the back and link the play with the attacking 3 midfielders. What ours do is drop deep to collect the ball, then give it back to the defenders who play it longer. It's so frustrating. 

Our attacking 3 last night were shambolic. Seriously, who thought playing McArthur furthest forward of the 3 central players was a good idea? Completely negating his best attributes (positional sense and slowing opponents attacks). We need someone in that position who's natural instincts are to get close to and beyond the striker. We could even have put Griffiths there, it wouldn't have been my choice but given the clamour to have him in the side, it might have given Strachan the chance to do so without losing the physical presence up front he loves so much. 

The two wide men also were ineffective. They've obviously been told to cut in to let the full backs overlap. Why then were they nowhere be seen in the middle? Fletcher was still isolated time and time again. 

Saying "play 4-4-2" won't do a fecking thing. 

It's obvious to anyone with a scooby about football that we barely practice team shape, either in an attacking or defensive sense. I'm quite frustrated that Strachan hasn't been quizzed on this. 

Very good post Parkie - you would think you know a bit about football by reading this :lol:

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4 hours ago, Chesney TA said:

It's not important but we have no players earning £50k a week.

I would bet that Darren Fletcher isn't too far off. I remember before the big money came into the EPL Robertson was on 27k per week and I'd imagine every player would have had a pay rise since then. McArthur and Snograss I'd imagine are not that far off 50k per week either.

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With the England gane a month away this is no time for radical surgery - more a question of restoring balance in the side.

The last two games have demonstrated

  1. The central midfield are neither aggressive or athletic enough at this level - what was once our strength is now our weakness.
  2. Having fielded the slowest international front 6 of all time last night it's time to inject some much needed pace in the side.
  3. We haven't got a true number 10.  Snodgrass was anonymous there against Lithuania and McArthur was the nearest we could come up with against Slovakia.

To combat (1) and protect the back 4 a fit Mulgrew shouldcome straight in to sit in front of the back four - he's done it before and done it well. 

McGinn would also give us more aggression in pressing the ball in midfield and he is capable of creating something in the opposition half.

To inject some pace Burke has to come in.  Yes, he's raw but he creates panic and draws in opposing players.  He also needs to be given a free role as a sort of roving number 10 not stuck out on the wing.

Anya may be a one trick pony but his one trick is more consistent than Ritchie's and he would give more defensive protection against England's flying wingers. 

That would give

....................................................Marshall/Gordon.............................................

Hutton (if fit).............Martin............................Hanley..........................Tierney

..............................McGinn............................Mulgrew.....................................

Snodgrass......................................Burke..........................................Anya

......................................................Fletcher..................................................

This team would be no world beaters but it's as solid and balanced as we could put out in the circumstances.

 

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16 minutes ago, henry george said:

With the England gane a month away this is no time for radical surgery - more a question of restoring balance in the side.

The last two games have demonstrated

  1. The central midfield are neither aggressive or athletic enough at this level - what was once our strength is now our weakness.
  2. Having fielded the slowest international front 6 of all time last night it's time to inject some much needed pace in the side.
  3. We haven't got a true number 10.  Snodgrass was anonymous there against Lithuania and McArthur was the nearest we could come up with against Slovakia.

To combat (1) and protect the back 4 a fit Mulgrew shouldcome straight in to sit in front of the back four - he's done it before and done it well. 

McGinn would also give us more aggression in pressing the ball in midfield and he is capable of creating something in the opposition half.

To inject some pace Burke has to come in.  Yes, he's raw but he creates panic and draws in opposing players.  He also needs to be given a free role as a sort of roving number 10 not stuck out on the wing.

Anya may be a one trick pony but his one trick is more consistent than Ritchie's and he would give more defensive protection against England's flying wingers. 

That would give

....................................................Marshall/Gordon.............................................

Hutton (if fit).............Martin............................Hanley..........................Tierney

..............................McGinn............................Mulgrew.....................................

Snodgrass......................................Burke..........................................Anya

......................................................Fletcher..................................................

This team would be no world beaters but it's as solid and balanced as we could put out in the circumstances.

 

 

Assuming Strachan is picking the side I'd be surprised if more than 5 or 6 of that team start at Wembley.

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7 minutes ago, andyD said:

Why continue with Hanley? He's been playing rubbish for us and not kicking a ball for his club.
It's also hard to see beyond a fit Robertson at left back.

I'd be happy with Robertson (very slight preference for Tierney's defending) and agree that Hanley iis there purely on the basis that Greer and Berra are the alternatives.

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For me, Snodgrass needs to play left mid. Agreed he doesn't have bags of pace but he does have a trick to give him space to whip in a cross, and he would have an out ball to Tierney or Robertson who can overlap him while he drops back to cover if required.

Oliver Burke needs to play every game. Which other small nation has a 13 million pound teenager who has just started playing in the Bundesliga and who has looked good in that company, with a goal and an assist already. Are we so arrogant that we can say that we can't afford to have him in just in case he has a quiet game ? FFS he is the 'Great White Hope' ! If he was Danish, Bulgarian, Georgian etc etc he would be in every team just to give him the experience that will stand him in good stead for his future appearances. Play him wide right and allow him and Snodgrass to switch. Burke already does this with Leipzig.

Morrison needs to come back in. Jordan Rhodes needs to be at least in the squad. Steven Fletcher needs a partner. 

Darren Fletcher should be sounded out about playing in central defence. He's done it before with Man Utd. 

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Get Ando in (his goal celebrations might need to improve though)

On 23/09/2016 at 10:02 AM, North East Loon said:

 

Would have Anderson from saints anyday, he is rock at the back for them.

 

 

On 05/09/2016 at 11:12 AM, faircity said:

Ive said it before, while steven anderson at saints is limited, he is far more dependable than hanley. He heads and boots the ball the way he is facing, nothing fancy, but it does the job. 

 

On 04/09/2016 at 8:41 PM, faircity said:

Yip, the defence is rank. Seriously, Steven Anderson fae Saints would be far more dependable than any of the two we have in the middle there, at least you know what you are getting. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Capital Saint said:

Get Ando in (his goal celebrations might need to improve though)

First name that came to mind thinking about potential defensive additions to the squad.

Hanley needs dropped, as mentioned above he's wildly off form and not even playing club football. Sends out a terrible message to potential competitors for a place in the team if someone in that predicament continues to be capped...

 

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41 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

First name that came to mind thinking about potential defensive additions to the squad.

Hanley needs dropped, as mentioned above he's wildly off form and not even playing club football. Sends out a terrible message to potential competitors for a place in the team if someone in that predicament continues to be capped...

 

What's your chance of playing for Scotland under Strachan if you play for St Johnstone ?

Zilch. Feck all. Niks. 

He has a bizarre way of deciding on which players are his favourites. 

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Stick with the current squad for the England game. However, after that, go for a policy of "blooding" young(ish) Scots in the senior team. The Under 21s will have to take a back seat.

I'd like to see more caps, more experience for Oliver Burke, Callum Paterson, Barrie McKay, Keiren Tierney and John McGinn.

A few suggestions for players to get in and play from the start in both friendly and competitive games: John Souttar, Jamie Walker, Jack Hamilton, Jordan McGhee, Chris Cadden and Sam Nicholson.

Edited by ErsatzThistle
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