What can we do better?

[Rossy]

Sadly, we're beyong simply tinkering with tactics.

Strachan....in his mind....is a tactical genius who dazzles the world with innovative selection policies, the likes of which have Pep and José gasping in admiration.

Refusing to select McCormack, Rhodes and Shinnie...amazing !!  Chris Martin as lone striker....wow !! Griffiths not give a kick of the ball.....ker plunk !! Blame a 19 year old for your own faults......wham bam !! Give caps to James Forrest....thank you ma'am !!

Coaches the world over are flocking to Largs to see what the wee Ginger maestro can come up with next.

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Rossy

[Ak91]

If guys in our team who are earning 50k per week in the English Premier league could pass the ball to a team mate wearing dark blue, we'd have half a chance. That was the worst Scotland performance I can remember. 

[Chesney TA]

6 minutes ago, Ak91 said:

If guys in our team who are earning 50k per week in the English Premier league could pass the ball to a team mate wearing dark blue, we'd have half a chance. That was the worst Scotland performance I can remember. 

It's not important but we have no players earning £50k a week.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

ARGGGHHHHH. 

This frustrates me no end. Why do people think a formation can only be played one way? Having 1 up front isn't an issue, it's the way we utilise the 4-2-3-1 that Strachan so loves that is the issue. 

The way we play this completely isolates the lone striker. We launch long balls to him and even if he manages to hold it up or get a flick on, he's so isolated that we lose the ball anyway. Which results in us retreating towards our own goal, before playing another long ball, where the same happens again and again and again. 

The deeper of our midfield 2 should provide solidity, protect the defence, give the defenders an easier passs out from the back and link the play with the attacking 3 midfielders. What ours do is drop deep to collect the ball, then give it back to the defenders who play it longer. It's so frustrating. 

Our attacking 3 last night were shambolic. Seriously, who thought playing McArthur furthest forward of the 3 central players was a good idea? Completely negating his best attributes (positional sense and slowing opponents attacks). We need someone in that position who's natural instincts are to get close to and beyond the striker. We could even have put Griffiths there, it wouldn't have been my choice but given the clamour to have him in the side, it might have given Strachan the chance to do so without losing the physical presence up front he loves so much. 

The two wide men also were ineffective. They've obviously been told to cut in to let the full backs overlap. Why then were they nowhere be seen in the middle? Fletcher was still isolated time and time again. 

Saying "play 4-4-2" won't do a fecking thing. 

It's obvious to anyone with a scooby about football that we barely practice team shape, either in an attacking or defensive sense. I'm quite frustrated that Strachan hasn't been quizzed on this. 

Excellent post sir. I was starting to think that I was the only person who actually watches the games. The thing I'm not sure about is, whether we are deliberately trying to play that way or whether we get "forced into" that style of play because of lack of basic skills? Our players are also obviously very short on confidence at the moment as well, which also tends to make them take what they think is the "easy" option. It will seem to them to be the "easy" option for those few seconds, but it very quickly turns out to be the hard option as soon as they give the ball away then they have to try to win it back again. 

 

[Yorkie]

Mate and I were discussing last night how big an ask it would be to try either Tierney or Robertson at right back. Just go and do the same thing but on the opposite side of the pitch. Seems to be the way of the modern footballer (Charlie Mulgrew's the only obvious exception I can think of) that you can only play one position. Such a shame they're both left backs.

Personally, I'd already write this campaign off as a bad job and play a batch of the youngsters (Souttar, McGinn, Burke) in every game from here on in before having a proper run at the next Euros. Think Darren Fletcher's race may well be run.

[Auld_Reekie]

1 minute ago, Ak91 said:

If guys in our team who are earning 50k per week in the English Premier league could pass the ball to a team mate wearing dark blue, we'd have half a chance. That was the worst Scotland performance I can remember. 

Don't agree.

If anything, first half was best we played in quite a while. Thought we looked up for it, energetic, passed the ball well under pressure. Unfortunately, didnt get a break from the referee and failed to defend the counter-attack. Overall though, first half was best I think we've played in a while. There's no doubt second half was one of the worst performances in recent times but first half showed there's a performance in us.

Some of the blame lies with the players but as always, ultimate responsibility lies with the management. If players arent performing, you dont pick them. You try someone else. You try a different system. You try something different if you want different outcomes. It's achingly obvious we need a new centre half pairing. It's frustratingly obvious Darren Fletcher doesnt have the engine for these kinds of games anymore. It's infuriating that Chris Martin and Steven Fletcher aren't up to this level or whatever system he thinks he's playing. Anya had one or two decent games in past but how anyone thinks he adds worth since he lost pace is beyond me. There's a good 4/5 players who should really have played their last game for Scotland last night, or at least their last game until they find form again. 

It's just not acceptable. If you give me the option of persisting with Strachan and giving someone else 7 games for free, I'm up for trying something different. 

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

What can we do better? Defend for starters. 

2 clean sheets in our last 10 qualifiers,  one of those v Gibraltar. Totally unacceptable. 

I'd advocate the Brown / Smith route of playing an extra centre half.

 

Or the Roxburgh plan of playing 3 or 4 extra centre halfs. A reasonable idea if you've got some good centre halfs but we struggle to find 2 decent ones never mind 3 or 6.

[Auld_Reekie]

3 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

Mate and I were discussing last night how big an ask it would be to try either Tierney or Robertson at right back. Just go and do the same thing but on the opposite side of the pitch. Seems to be the way of the modern footballer (Charlie Mulgrew's the only obvious exception I can think of) that you can only play one position. Such a shame they're both left backs.

Personally, I'd already write this campaign off as a bad job and play a batch of the youngsters (Souttar, McGinn, Burke) in every game from here on in before having a proper run at the next Euros. Think Darren Fletcher's race may well be run.

Agree. Campaign is now a write-off and I would rather draw a line under it on the understanding that a new manager has carte-blanche to blood players for the next campaign. If that means saying thanks but no thanks to the likes of Darren Fletcher, so be in. Been a fantastic servant but I dont see experience counting for anything last night when the legs dont work, he failed to mark and his passing was as bad as I can remember. Anya, both Fletchers, Martin, Hanley at least all need rested/replaced. That's not going to happen with Strachan in charge.

[McVinceSCT]

We already tried the 6-4-0 and lost.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

What happened with Bardsley. I thought he looked solid enough. Don't understand why he does not feature at all now.

Strachan disnae like him, end of story. Over the past decade, or more, Bardsley has looked, to me, to be our best right back (and he can also play on the left if required) but Strachan has decided he is not his type of player.

[sbcmfc]

6 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Don't agree.

If anything, first half was best we played in quite a while. Thought we looked up for it, energetic, passed the ball well under pressure. Unfortunately, didnt get a break from the referee and failed to defend the counter-attack. Overall though, first half was best I think we've played in a while. There's no doubt second half was one of the worst performances in recent times but first half showed there's a performance in us.

I thought we played ok in the first half too, we were pressing them all over the park and forcing mistakes BUT we failed to really test their keeper and they were opening us up and creating chances any time they got forward.

 

[sbcmfc]

There's almost a full team of players that Strachan doesn't like.

Its become a real issue that Strachan won't play some players.

I'm not a fan of sleeve tattoos or billy big baws footballers, but if billy big baws tattooed hipsters can play football they should be in the team.

[PASTA Mick]

As soon as I saw the XI last night it was obvious to me that we had no pace, would struggle to keep a clean sheet and struggle to score. 

Hanley isn't good enough to come into a team whilst he's not playing for Newcastle and expect to cope well at this level.

Fletcher wasn't fully fit and is starting to offer us very little. Bannan isn't very good.

Snodgrass and Ritchie are too slow and struggled to get a cross in all night.

Fletcher can't score goals out of nothing.

If our XI had been; Marshall; Patterson, Martin, Berra, Tierney; McArthur, Morrison; Burke (or Forrest), Snodgrass, Anya; Griffiths, we could at least try and attack them on the break with some pace and a genuine goal threat. Last night we had nothing. 

[scott1314]

Everything starts from a solid foundation and the current central defenders are simply not good enough or clever enough to give us that. I agree some of our 'better' players such as Snodgrass didn't give much over the 2 games however they can't be blamed for simple lack of defensive abilities and costing cheap goals. If you look at Lithuania game 15secs before their goal Hanley played a ridiculous pass out right when under no pressure at all, lost possession meaning our midfield players and full back then caught out of position and then Hanley gets done by a simple one-two then we are up against it. 

First goal last night where were our central defenders for both the initial cross and the loose ball after Marshalls save? Perhaps unlucky in many respects but both of them retreating onto the goal line in that situation and leaving man completely free 10 yards out is basic stuff. Second goal is worse. Yes Paterson overloaded but he does what he can to make it difficult for Hamsik. Watch it again and where are Martin and Hanley when the cut back comes? Picking up no-one. And the third goal is a free header what 10 yards out....abysmal defending by Hanley. 

it wasn't as though we were being cut open down the flanks or through the midfield. Simple abysmal central defending. Don't solve that issue and it doesn't matter what you do going forward you are always going to be up against it.

Solution is the problem. Darren Fletcher as a 'sweeper' perhaps? Must admit I am struggling to think of who could do a job in there but we would as well making a fundamental change now and sticking with it. We were never likely to qualify for 2018. In fact under current qualification set up we are unlikely to qualify for a World Cup again so let's focus on getting it right for Euros that we can qualify for.

[McVinceSCT]

The first thing we can do better is to accept we have a VERY limited squad in terms of quality and pace. Swapping Hanley for Berra or Fletcher for Griffiths won't change it too much.

We must, unfortunately, realise that we are not favourites when we play teams like Slovakia, especially away.

[Parklife]

1 minute ago, McVinceSCT said:

We must, unfortunately, realise that we are not favourites when we play teams like Slovakia, especially away.

No one thinks we are. Not one single person.

[McVinceSCT]

I saw some comments on here after our poor show on saturday, saying we will win in Slovakia because they had lost their 2 first games (against England and away to Slovenia, which looks a not so bad team)...

[Orraloon]

1 minute ago, Parklife said:

No one thinks we are. Not one single person.

Not now maybe, but there was a few folk on here seemed to think we would beat them before the game kicked off.

[ProudScot]

3 minutes ago, McVinceSCT said:

The first thing we can do better is to accept we have a VERY limited squad in terms of quality and pace. Swapping Hanley for Berra or Fletcher for Griffiths won't change it too much.

We must, unfortunately, realise that we are not favourites when we play teams like Slovakia, especially away.

We know we aren't favourites. There are a few here who still think criticism of Strachan = If someone else was in charge we would qualify.

That isn't whats being said. We can improve and give the fans more to cheer about without qualifying.

On current showing we may end up 5th in this group.

[Return of Yermaw]

Just now, McVinceSCT said:

I saw some comments on here after our poor show on saturday, saying we will win in Slovakia because they had lost their 2 first games (against England and away to Slovenia, which looks a not so bad team)...

you form a view on the back of some isolated posters? there was no way Strachan had the ability to turn the performnce around with his limited ability after Lithiania. However few if any would predict he would set us up to get a spanking from a limited team like Slovakia. 

[sbcmfc]

3 minutes ago, McVinceSCT said:

The first thing we can do better is to accept we have a VERY limited squad in terms of quality and pace. Swapping Hanley for Berra or Fletcher for Griffiths won't change it too much.

We must, unfortunately, realise that we are not favourites when we play teams like Slovakia, especially away.

No, Slovakia were rightly favourites.

We have good enough players to be able to cause an upset though, or even get a point. I could've accepted a narrow defeat, but the manner of it, particularly 2nd half is where folk are getting annoyed as well as the obvious weaknesses in the team that could've been addressed.

Losing 3-0 to a team that haven't scored in over 7 hours of football is a poor show.

[Parklife]

6 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Not now maybe, but there was a few folk on here seemed to think we would beat them before the game kicked off.

Morons don't count. They're no doubt the same fecking idiots who come out with "in Gord we trust" and "we were unlucky on Saturday". 

Whanks. 

[simonmk]

2 hours ago, Parklife said:

ARGGGHHHHH. 

This frustrates me no end. Why do people think a formation can only be played one way? Having 1 up front isn't an issue, it's the way we utilise the 4-2-3-1 that Strachan so loves that is the issue. 

The way we play this completely isolates the lone striker. We launch long balls to him and even if he manages to hold it up or get a flick on, he's so isolated that we lose the ball anyway. Which results in us retreating towards our own goal, before playing another long ball, where the same happens again and again and again. 

The deeper of our midfield 2 should provide solidity, protect the defence, give the defenders an easier passs out from the back and link the play with the attacking 3 midfielders. What ours do is drop deep to collect the ball, then give it back to the defenders who play it longer. It's so frustrating. 

Our attacking 3 last night were shambolic. Seriously, who thought playing McArthur furthest forward of the 3 central players was a good idea? Completely negating his best attributes (positional sense and slowing opponents attacks). We need someone in that position who's natural instincts are to get close to and beyond the striker. We could even have put Griffiths there, it wouldn't have been my choice but given the clamour to have him in the side, it might have given Strachan the chance to do so without losing the physical presence up front he loves so much. 

The two wide men also were ineffective. They've obviously been told to cut in to let the full backs overlap. Why then were they nowhere be seen in the middle? Fletcher was still isolated time and time again. 

Saying "play 4-4-2" won't do a fecking thing. 

It's obvious to anyone with a scooby about football that we barely practice team shape, either in an attacking or defensive sense. I'm quite frustrated that Strachan hasn't been quizzed on this. 

Parklife for Gaffer.

[Orraloon]

9 minutes ago, scott1314 said:

Everything starts from a solid foundation and the current central defenders are simply not good enough or clever enough to give us that. I agree some of our 'better' players such as Snodgrass didn't give much over the 2 games however they can't be blamed for simple lack of defensive abilities and costing cheap goals. If you look at Lithuania game 15secs before their goal Hanley played a ridiculous pass out right when under no pressure at all, lost possession meaning our midfield players and full back then caught out of position and then Hanley gets done by a simple one-two then we are up against it. 

First goal last night where were our central defenders for both the initial cross and the loose ball after Marshalls save? Perhaps unlucky in many respects but both of them retreating onto the goal line in that situation and leaving man completely free 10 yards out is basic stuff. Second goal is worse. Yes Paterson overloaded but he does what he can to make it difficult for Hamsik. Watch it again and where are Martin and Hanley when the cut back comes? Picking up no-one. And the third goal is a free header what 10 yards out....abysmal defending by Hanley. 

it wasn't as though we were being cut open down the flanks or through the midfield. Simple abysmal central defending. Don't solve that issue and it doesn't matter what you do going forward you are always going to be up against it.

Solution is the problem. Darren Fletcher as a 'sweeper' perhaps? Must admit I am struggling to think of who could do a job in there but we would as well making a fundamental change now and sticking with it. We were never likely to qualify for 2018. In fact under current qualification set up we are unlikely to qualify for a World Cup again so let's focus on getting it right for Euros that we can qualify for.

Lithuania picked the ball up inside their own half then waltzed past 3 Scotland midfielders without any of them even attempting a tackle. How you can blame Hanley for that goal is beyond me. Plenty other things you can blame him for. 

[runningtings]

The other bit that gets me is the laughable idea that Pressley had provided intelligence on how they play???

WTF. Surely we should have known that Mak and Hamsik drop into the gaps then, surely we should have worked on how to stop them?

No, Strachan knows best with his rigid and failed formation.