Snoddy Out.

[andyD]

15 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Fletcher up front, midfield 4 including Burke, probably with Fletcher, McArthur and Morrison. Back 5 - Anya at right back and Robertson at left back, with Hanley, Martin, and Berra. 

Can't see that happening at all. 541 with 3 defensive mids. Don't want to see it and fortunately don't expect to see it.

[clarky1606]

14 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said:

Not being funny but he's tiny. I've had shites bigger than him

But if Strachan drops Tierney/Robertson and plays Wallace (grass) or Mulgrew at left back then his quota of keeping tall players in the team is restored and Anya can slot into midfield

Look what happened at the Denmark friendly.. Fletcher came off ill at half time, Anya came on so Strachan also hooked Tierney at LB and brought on Mulgrew to keep his quota up.

Absolute madness but that's whats likely to happen! 

[jock strap]

Is it confirmed that Snoddy is definitely out ? 

Major blow. 

[LewisEDI]

wonder what Andy Todd and Andy Smith are up to these days, maybe strachan could give them a call for some aerial domination 

 

 

[Radian]

Snodgrass like most was dire in last 2 games so it's a chance for someone else to have a go.  Should be a few personal changes from the nonsense of the last 2 games.

[hunchy]

Depending on where snoddy was going to play depends on who to bring in. If it was through the middle then I would go for McCormack if it's out wide then anya with Burke through the middle

[scotsgary2]

Big blow but does it really matter...

Chance was slim and now slimmer sadly

[andyD]

34 minutes ago, scotsgary2 said:

Big blow but does it really matter...

Chance was slim and now slimmer sadly

I dont know.. it might force us into playing with some pace, which is what we're going to need.

For me there was a danger we would play a front 4 of something like:

Snodgrass - Maloney - Ritchie
Fletcher

That's literally the worst line up we could go with in my opinion, we'll be forced back, penned in and have no opportunity to break out. Fletcher will be left with zero support cos even if he does hold the ball up no one will get to him before 2 men close him down.

This is the kind of game where we might be much better off playing:
Forrest - Burke - Anya
Thumb

and looking to use their pace to carry the ball up the pitch. It'll be hard work for those guys, and we'll  need to save our changes for the end to bring on fresh legs, but if we go Snodgrass, Maloney, Ritchie, then I think we're done for.

That's not to say I don't rate snodgrass, he's a good player and in some games he'll be vital to us. It's just this isnt a game that qwould suit his talents anyway imo.
 

[scotsgary2]

andy,

Do you not think its going to be Premier against Championship mate (dont get me wrong here) I big Scotland fan.

Reading post on this thread about who is in and will not play...compare that to England squad.

I know England not firing and have there own problems..

Example my lad up the Cov game Saturday and you know piss wasnt taken about being Scottish it was more sympathy,how sad eh...

Hope for a win obviously but eh you know same old same think...Great in spells but ultimately miss out on win.... 

 

 

 

[andyD]

Not really buying the Premier vs Championship thing. On paper I'm sure the teamsheets will look a bit like that, but international football is that different and it really does come down to small margins on the day, often regardless of who you're playing.

England are struggling for any coherence and have just 3 goals in 3 games. That's including games against Malta and Slovenia which should have been Prem vs Champ in Slovenia's case, worse in Malta's. The middle of their defense is not solid, the keeper is wildly inconsistent and their central midfield, while competent, is not creative or threatening. There's only 2 players I'm concerned about: Walcott who's got pace, looks dangerous and is on form, and Sterling who looks a much better player this season, but still has question marks in an England shirt. I'd also have been much more worried about Fat Sam managing the side than I am about Southgate. I don't think anyone's confident in Southgate, not the players nor the fans. That should help us.

England's at home, the pressure's on them and we usually rise to big games like this. The last trip to Wembley was a lot closer than I think most of us were expecting pre-match, I'm not sure too many of us thought we'd be leading at any point. Our player's aren't as bad as we think they are. They've been putting in rubbish performances of late, but they're not a bunch of unfit buffoons with the technique of a 3 year old wearing flippers (tho i'd forgive anyone who thought they were after Slovakia). This is the kind of game that should give them the kick to knuckle down and focus on getting things right. I'm sure there will be an extra something from having got beat the way we did against Slovakia.

Whether we pick the right side, with enough pace to hurt England remains to be seen. But we have players who can do that. I hope we don't fall into the trap of thinking we can out play them with pretty passing or knocking it long to Fletcher and expecting him to hold off 2-3 players while we get up to support. Fletcher's a good player, but that's a sure fire way to make anyone look like a mug. We need to break quickly, 3-4 guys, with diagonal passes, because they will over-commit, pushing the fullbacks on, so we need pace thru the middle as well as wide in order to counter well enough.

I'd probably go with:

Gordon (Toss up with Marshall, but I feel Gordon organises the defense better)
Paterson (Done nothing wrong so far)
Tierney (Since Robertson's out)
Martin (Sleeping in Malta but otherwise he's not done terribly)
Berra (Hanley's just not playing enough, Berra has and is our next best)
Mulgrew (in midfield to shield, distribute wide, compete physically and for his set pieces)
McDonald (again to be physical and competitive, we're going to need to bully Alli for example)
Forrest (say what you will about past performances but he's on form this season for Celtic and has that pace)
Burke (free role in behind, physical and pacey)
Anya (Englands right back is a threat, but Anya has the pace and the engine to get up and down)
Grifftihs (Quicker than most we have and knows where the goal is. Plus the England defenders don't know him)

Not really backs to the wall, Mulgrew and McDonald are both good passers of the ball as well as big guys. The fullbacks are both good going forward and Griffiths, Burke and Forrest aren't afraid to take people on. Having that amount of pace in the team should also keep them off us as they'll be worried about the counter, which combined with the defensive experience and discipline of McDonald and Mulgrew should see us being pretty hard to break down when they're in possession.

I think we can win the game. Anya's goal against Germany is all the proof you need that we can sneak a goal against the big teams, and while that game didn't end in our favour, England are no Germany.

Edited October 26, 2016 by andyD

[scotsgary2]

Honestly wish you all the best with that mate...

 

Final word on this Anya would not make a England Tea boy now...sorry you may not want to hear it cant make a struggling Champ club team reality man...

[bonny78]

16 hours ago, andyD said:

Not really buying the Premier vs Championship thing. On paper I'm sure the teamsheets will look a bit like that, but international football is that different and it really does come down to small margins on the day, often regardless of who you're playing.

England are struggling for any coherence and have just 3 goals in 3 games. That's including games against Malta and Slovenia which should have been Prem vs Champ in Slovenia's case, worse in Malta's. The middle of their defense is not solid, the keeper is wildly inconsistent and their central midfield, while competent, is not creative or threatening. There's only 2 players I'm concerned about: Walcott who's got pace, looks dangerous and is on form, and Sterling who looks a much better player this season, but still has question marks in an England shirt. I'd also have been much more worried about Fat Sam managing the side than I am about Southgate. I don't think anyone's confident in Southgate, not the players nor the fans. That should help us.

England's at home, the pressure's on them and we usually rise to big games like this. The last trip to Wembley was a lot closer than I think most of us were expecting pre-match, I'm not sure too many of us thought we'd be leading at any point. Our player's aren't as bad as we think they are. They've been putting in rubbish performances of late, but they're not a bunch of unfit buffoons with the technique of a 3 year old wearing flippers (tho i'd forgive anyone who thought they were after Slovakia). This is the kind of game that should give them the kick to knuckle down and focus on getting things right. I'm sure there will be an extra something from having got beat the way we did against Slovakia.

Whether we pick the right side, with enough pace to hurt England remains to be seen. But we have players who can do that. I hope we don't fall into the trap of thinking we can out play them with pretty passing or knocking it long to Fletcher and expecting him to hold off 2-3 players while we get up to support. Fletcher's a good player, but that's a sure fire way to make anyone look like a mug. We need to break quickly, 3-4 guys, with diagonal passes, because they will over-commit, pushing the fullbacks on, so we need pace thru the middle as well as wide in order to counter well enough.

I'd probably go with:

Gordon (Toss up with Marshall, but I feel Gordon organises the defense better)
Paterson (Done nothing wrong so far)
Tierney (Since Robertson's out)
Martin (Sleeping in Malta but otherwise he's not done terribly)
Berra (Hanley's just not playing enough, Berra has and is our next best)
Mulgrew (in midfield to shield, distribute wide, compete physically and for his set pieces)
McDonald (again to be physical and competitive, we're going to need to bully Alli for example)
Forrest (say what you will about past performances but he's on form this season for Celtic and has that pace)
Burke (free role in behind, physical and pacey)
Anya (Englands right back is a threat, but Anya has the pace and the engine to get up and down)
Grifftihs (Quicker than most we have and knows where the goal is. Plus the England defenders don't know him)

Not really backs to the wall, Mulgrew and McDonald are both good passers of the ball as well as big guys. The fullbacks are both good going forward and Griffiths, Burke and Forrest aren't afraid to take people on. Having that amount of pace in the team should also keep them off us as they'll be worried about the counter, which combined with the defensive experience and discipline of McDonald and Mulgrew should see us being pretty hard to break down when they're in possession.

I think we can win the game. Anya's goal against Germany is all the proof you need that we can sneak a goal against the big teams, and while that game didn't end in our favour, England are no Germany.

 

16 hours ago, andyD said:

Not really buying the Premier vs Championship thing. On paper I'm sure the teamsheets will look a bit like that, but international football is that different and it really does come down to small margins on the day, often regardless of who you're playing.

England are struggling for any coherence and have just 3 goals in 3 games. That's including games against Malta and Slovenia which should have been Prem vs Champ in Slovenia's case, worse in Malta's. The middle of their defense is not solid, the keeper is wildly inconsistent and their central midfield, while competent, is not creative or threatening. There's only 2 players I'm concerned about: Walcott who's got pace, looks dangerous and is on form, and Sterling who looks a much better player this season, but still has question marks in an England shirt. I'd also have been much more worried about Fat Sam managing the side than I am about Southgate. I don't think anyone's confident in Southgate, not the players nor the fans. That should help us.

England's at home, the pressure's on them and we usually rise to big games like this. The last trip to Wembley was a lot closer than I think most of us were expecting pre-match, I'm not sure too many of us thought we'd be leading at any point. Our player's aren't as bad as we think they are. They've been putting in rubbish performances of late, but they're not a bunch of unfit buffoons with the technique of a 3 year old wearing flippers (tho i'd forgive anyone who thought they were after Slovakia). This is the kind of game that should give them the kick to knuckle down and focus on getting things right. I'm sure there will be an extra something from having got beat the way we did against Slovakia.

Whether we pick the right side, with enough pace to hurt England remains to be seen. But we have players who can do that. I hope we don't fall into the trap of thinking we can out play them with pretty passing or knocking it long to Fletcher and expecting him to hold off 2-3 players while we get up to support. Fletcher's a good player, but that's a sure fire way to make anyone look like a mug. We need to break quickly, 3-4 guys, with diagonal passes, because they will over-commit, pushing the fullbacks on, so we need pace thru the middle as well as wide in order to counter well enough.

I'd probably go with:

Gordon (Toss up with Marshall, but I feel Gordon organises the defense better)
Paterson (Done nothing wrong so far)
Tierney (Since Robertson's out)
Martin (Sleeping in Malta but otherwise he's not done terribly)
Berra (Hanley's just not playing enough, Berra has and is our next best)
Mulgrew (in midfield to shield, distribute wide, compete physically and for his set pieces)
McDonald (again to be physical and competitive, we're going to need to bully Alli for example)
Forrest (say what you will about past performances but he's on form this season for Celtic and has that pace)
Burke (free role in behind, physical and pacey)
Anya (Englands right back is a threat, but Anya has the pace and the engine to get up and down)
Grifftihs (Quicker than most we have and knows where the goal is. Plus the England defenders don't know him)

Not really backs to the wall, Mulgrew and McDonald are both good passers of the ball as well as big guys. The fullbacks are both good going forward and Griffiths, Burke and Forrest aren't afraid to take people on. Having that amount of pace in the team should also keep them off us as they'll be worried about the counter, which combined with the defensive experience and discipline of McDonald and Mulgrew should see us being pretty hard to break down when they're in possession.

I think we can win the game. Anya's goal against Germany is all the proof you need that we can sneak a goal against the big teams, and while that game didn't end in our favour, England are no Germany.

T.L.D.R.

[ProudScot]

17 hours ago, andyD said:

Not really buying the Premier vs Championship thing. On paper I'm sure the teamsheets will look a bit like that, but international football is that different and it really does come down to small margins on the day, often regardless of who you're playing.

England are struggling for any coherence and have just 3 goals in 3 games. That's including games against Malta and Slovenia which should have been Prem vs Champ in Slovenia's case, worse in Malta's. The middle of their defense is not solid, the keeper is wildly inconsistent and their central midfield, while competent, is not creative or threatening. There's only 2 players I'm concerned about: Walcott who's got pace, looks dangerous and is on form, and Sterling who looks a much better player this season, but still has question marks in an England shirt. I'd also have been much more worried about Fat Sam managing the side than I am about Southgate. I don't think anyone's confident in Southgate, not the players nor the fans. That should help us.

England's at home, the pressure's on them and we usually rise to big games like this. The last trip to Wembley was a lot closer than I think most of us were expecting pre-match, I'm not sure too many of us thought we'd be leading at any point. Our player's aren't as bad as we think they are. They've been putting in rubbish performances of late, but they're not a bunch of unfit buffoons with the technique of a 3 year old wearing flippers (tho i'd forgive anyone who thought they were after Slovakia). This is the kind of game that should give them the kick to knuckle down and focus on getting things right. I'm sure there will be an extra something from having got beat the way we did against Slovakia.

Whether we pick the right side, with enough pace to hurt England remains to be seen. But we have players who can do that. I hope we don't fall into the trap of thinking we can out play them with pretty passing or knocking it long to Fletcher and expecting him to hold off 2-3 players while we get up to support. Fletcher's a good player, but that's a sure fire way to make anyone look like a mug. We need to break quickly, 3-4 guys, with diagonal passes, because they will over-commit, pushing the fullbacks on, so we need pace thru the middle as well as wide in order to counter well enough.

I'd probably go with:

Gordon (Toss up with Marshall, but I feel Gordon organises the defense better)
Paterson (Done nothing wrong so far)
Tierney (Since Robertson's out)
Martin (Sleeping in Malta but otherwise he's not done terribly)
Berra (Hanley's just not playing enough, Berra has and is our next best)
Mulgrew (in midfield to shield, distribute wide, compete physically and for his set pieces)
McDonald (again to be physical and competitive, we're going to need to bully Alli for example)
Forrest (say what you will about past performances but he's on form this season for Celtic and has that pace)
Burke (free role in behind, physical and pacey)
Anya (Englands right back is a threat, but Anya has the pace and the engine to get up and down)
Grifftihs (Quicker than most we have and knows where the goal is. Plus the England defenders don't know him)

Not really backs to the wall, Mulgrew and McDonald are both good passers of the ball as well as big guys. The fullbacks are both good going forward and Griffiths, Burke and Forrest aren't afraid to take people on. Having that amount of pace in the team should also keep them off us as they'll be worried about the counter, which combined with the defensive experience and discipline of McDonald and Mulgrew should see us being pretty hard to break down when they're in possession.

I think we can win the game. Anya's goal against Germany is all the proof you need that we can sneak a goal against the big teams, and while that game didn't end in our favour, England are no Germany.

We are no Scotland of 2 years ago either, a game which we lost anyway.

A 5-0 hiding is a depressing possiblity

[andyD]

17 hours ago, scotsgary2 said:

Honestly wish you all the best with that mate...

 

Final word on this Anya would not make a England Tea boy now...sorry you may not want to hear it cant make a struggling Champ club team reality man...

Aye, he wouldn't have got in the German side either, but still scored for us against them. Who from Slovenia would get in the England team? Yet England were lucky to hang on to a 0-0 against them.

The point is that as long as we have the workrate and communication to keep it tight and the pace to hurt England then it's anyone's game. They're not an irresistible force, and the main thing that is likely to lose us the game is if we all turn up deciding we've already lost on paper before a ball is kicked.

[andyD]

23 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

A 5-0 hiding is a depressing possiblity

It is, but it's not a likely one, we're not San Marino.

In all likelihood there wont be more than 2 goals between the teams.

[andyD]

1 hour ago, bonny78 said:

 

T.L.D.R.

Are you sure a football forum is the right place for you given your low attention span?

Edited October 27, 2016 by andyD

[hendryselbow]

58 minutes ago, andyD said:

Aye, he wouldn't have got in the German side either, but still scored for us against them. Who from Slovenia would get in the England team? Yet England were lucky to hang on to a 0-0 against them.

The point is that as long as we have the workrate and communication to keep it tight and the pace to hurt England then it's anyone's game. They're not an irresistible force, and the main thing that is likely to lose us the game is if we all turn up deciding we've already lost on paper before a ball is kicked.

This. We may be murder but so are they. Work your balls off and get a bit of luck and you never know, it's the best we can hope for at the moment.

 

and youre right, a bit of pace is our best defence.

Edited October 27, 2016 by hendryselbow

[Mcfadden11]

Snodgrass was dire in Trnava but he's potentially our best player.

I think Maloney might start behind the striker with Burke and Ritchie wide.

[andyD]

17 hours ago, Mcfadden11 said:

Snodgrass was dire in Trnava but he's potentially our best player.

I think Maloney might start behind the striker with Burke and Ritchie wide.

There's a decent chance you're right. I don't think it'll will work tho.

[Mcfadden11]

8 hours ago, andyD said:

There's a decent chance you're right. I don't think it'll will work tho.

Neither do I. Not sure how capable Maloney is of starting in such a big game anymore. Though very few alternatives.

[The Black Bra]

1 hour ago, Mcfadden11 said:

Neither do I. Not sure how capable Maloney is of starting in such a big game anymore. Though very few alternatives.

How about S.Fletcher and the thumb up front, Burke and Forrest/Ritchie wide ( maybe Ritchie for his delivery), Brown and McArthur defensive midfield?

[RabtheBruce]

Mike Phelan has said Snodgrass's injury is not as bad as first feared and he could be back for Wembley. It would certainly be a boost for our midfield having Snoddy and Brown both in it.  Although it's a blow losing Tierney given Robertson's also out. We still have decent cover at left-back, though.

[Goozay]

On 10/25/2016 at 4:02 PM, Squirrelhumper said:

Big blow. 

Well ...

On 10/27/2016 at 9:18 PM, Mcfadden11 said:

Snodgrass was dire in Trnava but he's potentially our best player.

 

He wasn't anywhere near his best against Lithuania at Hampden either.

Clearly came back too early.

We should still be able to trouble an England team in disarray with the squad we've got.

Quality of personnel isn't the issue we have at the moment. Its Strachan's (in)ability to get the most out of what he's got.  

[Toepoke]

Snoddy in?

 

[andyD]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Snoddy in?

 

For now, aye.

I guess we'll see in a week if he's still looking like he'll be ready, if not we might see him drop out and someone like Maloney come into the squad instead.