Harry Clarke

[jcs]

I'm totally bemused and disgusted by his lack of remorse and in my eyes contempt of the law this is the man who killed six innocent people who went out to do some Christmas shopping by knowingly having an illness that should have prevented from being in charge of a bike never mind a bin lorry do the DVLA not realise they are setting a precedent by not having this man charged if and when this happens again his/her defence lawyer saying but Harry Clarke did it this man should be jailed for his neglectful actions end of

[OLAS]

No way should he be jailed.

A lot of assumptions, but this guy probably has a family to feed and to be honest, probably not a lot of qualifications that would get him a non-driving job with the same pay.

It was a terrible accident that could indeed have been avoided but he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life.

Not to mention the media circus that will no doubt follow him around and call him an evil killer if he has the audacity to have a pint in his local.

[Coldo]

He is one of the undoubtedly many who falsify medical questionnaires in order to get a job and was found out in tragic circumstances.

As said by Olas, he probably has little education and therefore limited job opportunities, and by admitting to that cutting that list even shorter. I'm no expert but is it a criminal offence to lie on DVLA documentation?

The media won't be happy hounding him until he tops himself so they can post some "Tormented Soul" headline.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Coldo

[aaid]

I'm totally bemused and disgusted by his lack of remorse and in my eyes contempt of the law this is the man who killed six innocent people who went out to do some Christmas shopping by knowingly having an illness that should have prevented from being in charge of a bike never mind a bin lorry do the DVLA not realise they are setting a precedent by not having this man charged if and when this happens again his/her defence lawyer saying but Harry Clarke did it this man should be jailed for his neglectful actions end of

Are you a medical or legal expert?

Some interesting background legal analysis here.

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/170-insults-to-dead.html

[jcs]

As Olas said a lot of assumptions being made 1 being he has a limited education I understand we all have family's to feed but to show no remorse after bein found out as Coldo said is discusting he's a rat and should be jailed

[phart]

what instrument was used to measure his remorse?

[aaid]

As Olas said a lot of assumptions being made 1 being he has a limited education I understand we all have family's to feed but to show no remorse after bein found out as Coldo said is discusting he's a rat and should be jailed

As soon as some of the families raised the prospect of a private criminal prosecution, he was never going to do anything other than keep schtum so as not to incriminate himself, I doubt anyone else in the same situation would do any different. He was most likely advised by his lawyer to say nothing.

If the families weren't aware that this was the likely outcome of proposing a private prosecution then they've been badly advised, given the difficulties in raising a prosecution in the first place and especially now that any the publicity will mean he won't have a fair trial.

As Peat Worrier says, if they wanted answers or retribution by taking this action they are likely to get neither.

[giblet]

What's the difference to him knowing he poses a danger due to his health history and someone drink driving?

[OLAS]

The law?

[Barney Rubble]

As soon as some of the families raised the prospect of a private criminal prosecution, he was never going to do anything other than keep schtum so as not to incriminate himself, I doubt anyone else in the same situation would do any different. He was most likely advised by his lawyer to say nothing.

If the families weren't aware that this was the likely outcome of proposing a private prosecution then they've been badly advised, given the difficulties in raising a prosecution in the first place and especially now that any the publicity will mean he won't have a fair trial.

As Peat Worrier says, if they wanted answers or retribution by taking this action they are likely to get neither.

The families who announced during the trial that they were pursuing a private prosecution were premature in their action.

Better to have allowed the FAI to conclude first of all.

Whichever way you look at it, Harry Clarke has a very difficult future as a result of the way the FAI has panned out, on top of whatever he had been through as a result of the accident.

[jcs]

My disgusted comes from the lack of remorse by all accounts he is still out to look after number 1. He has a medical condition and knowing this he drove a bin lorry knowing if he had another episode with an attitude of whatever happens happens F IT im all right jack to say sorry is not to much for the families of these victims to hear he can say that without incriminating himself but he hasn't which is my point

[aaid]

The families who announced during the trial that they were pursuing a private prosecution were premature in their action.

Better to have allowed the FAI to conclude first of all.

Whichever way you look at it, Harry Clarke has a very difficult future as a result of the way the FAI has panned out, on top of whatever he had been through as a result of the accident.

Exactly, no winners in this at all.

I can understand the families desire to see Harry Clarke held to account in some way and can only guess at what they are going through but really do think they've either been badly advised by counsel to go down this route or they have chosen to ignore the advice of counsel.

I think the last private criminal conviction to go forwards in Scotland was the Carole X rape case in the 1980s and the one previous to that was in 1909.

[aaid]

My disgusted comes from the lack of remorse by all accounts he is still out to look after number 1. He has a medical condition and knowing this he drove a bin lorry knowing if he had another episode with an attitude of whatever happens happens F IT im all right jack to say sorry is not to much for the families of these victims to hear he can say that without incriminating himself but he hasn't which is my point

An apology - especially if he is apologizing for his actions - is generally construed as an admission of guilt.

[Louch]

A driving licence comes with a responsibility of driving the vehicle and any damage you cause with it. Between this and the rubbish sentences given to people killing people with cars, it's being too easily forgotten. He could have prevented that tragedy, he was dishonest and killed people. If it was first time, it's excusable. His situation, none at all. He's not the victim.

[Barney Rubble]

My disgusted comes from the lack of remorse by all accounts he is still out to look after number 1. He has a medical condition and knowing this he drove a bin lorry knowing if he had another episode with an attitude of whatever happens happens F IT im all right jack to say sorry is not to much for the families of these victims to hear he can say that without incriminating himself but he hasn't which is my point

He hasn't a chance now.

Leaving aside previous history, he couldn't have known that he was going to have a blackout on that day. That's a given.

However, what has come out during that FAI about his form filling does not show himself or GDC's verification procedures in a good light at all.

The Crown should now be looking at a decision that serves the public interest overall.

The manner in which this whole FAI has been conducted has been at best...................curious.

[jcs]

A driving licence comes with a responsibility of driving the vehicle and any damage you cause with it. Between this and the rubbish sentences given to people killing people with cars, it's being too easily forgotten. He could have prevented that tragedy, he was dishonest and killed people. If it was first time, it's excusable. His situation, none at all. He's not the victim.

. Exactly no excuses Edited August 21, 2015 by jcs

[Dillinger]

Don't see how anyone can believe he shouldn't do jail time.

As someone said, it's comparable to people who get behind the wheel steaming drunk and end up killing someone.

This guy knew he had a history of blackouts, so knew there was a chance it could happen while at the wheel. He selfishly lied about it and his choice resulted in the deaths of six people.

Of course he didn't mean for it to happen and if he could wind the clock back, I'm sure he would do things differently. But not meaning to kill someone with your dangerous actions isn't a reason against a prosecution and jail time.

[Mindimoo]

Don't see how anyone can believe he shouldn't do jail time.

As someone said, it's comparable to people who get behind the wheel steaming drunk and end up killing someone.

This guy knew he had a history of blackouts, so knew there was a chance it could happen while at the wheel. He selfishly lied about it and his choice resulted in the deaths of six people.

Of course he didn't mean for it to happen and if he could wind the clock back, I'm sure he would do things differently. But not meaning to kill someone with your dangerous actions isn't a reason against a prosecution and jail time.

[Charlie Endell]

Don't see how anyone can believe he shouldn't do jail time.

As someone said, it's comparable to people who get behind the wheel steaming drunk and end up killing someone.

This guy knew he had a history of blackouts, so knew there was a chance it could happen while at the wheel. He selfishly lied about it and his choice resulted in the deaths of six people.

Of course he didn't mean for it to happen and if he could wind the clock back, I'm sure he would do things differently. But not meaning to kill someone with your dangerous actions isn't a reason against a prosecution and jail time.

^^^

The selfish bit in particular is bang on.

[aaid]

Don't see how anyone can believe he shouldn't do jail time.

As someone said, it's comparable to people who get behind the wheel steaming drunk and end up killing someone.

This guy knew he had a history of blackouts, so knew there was a chance it could happen while at the wheel. He selfishly lied about it and his choice resulted in the deaths of six people.

If you get behind the wheel when you're over the limit you are committing an offence.

What offence has Harry Clarke committed and what should he be charged with?

[Mark frae Crieff]

When H Clarke went for his Medicals he has had to sign them to state he has no underlying medical complaints.. at 58 he has had at least 3 of these...

His actions have been callous,calculated and fraudulent. Should he have been charged the answer is Yes and then let a court of law work out his level of guilt.

This tragedy was an accident but it would have been avoided if he had the conviction to admit his illness to his employer and the DVLA.

.

[Ally Bongo]

What offence has Harry Clarke committed and what should he be charged with?

https://www.gov.uk/blackouts-and-driving

You can be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. You may be prosecuted if you’re involved in an accident as a result.

[Ally Bongo]

His actions have been callous,calculated and fraudulent.

Callous and calculated is harsh

Fraudulent to the extent of securing employment yes

[aaid]

https://www.gov.uk/blackouts-and-driving

You can be fined up to £1,000 if you don’t tell DVLA about a medical condition that affects your driving. You may be prosecuted if you’re involved in an accident as a result.

DVLA have said they don't intend to prosecute either so presumably they aren't confident about getting a conviction.

Callous and calculated is harsh

Fraudulent to the extent of securing employment yes

I'd agree with that, certainly grounds for disciplinary and probably summary dismissal but not criminal.

[Mark frae Crieff]

Callous and calculated is harsh

Fraudulent to the extent of securing employment yes

I'm sorry he knew he had issues with blackouts. so definitely calculated, he also will have known the effects passing out behind the wheel may have caused..

His fraudulent behavior was lying on his medicals to gain his licence.. Also he blacked out behind the wheel of a bus..This was way before being employed by the council.. Mind from 45 a PCV/HGV driver has a medical every 5 years...