Robroysboy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Looks as if our german freinds may have been cheating their emmision tests for their car engines. Volkswagen boss Martin Winterkorn will "support" the German transport ministry's investigation into the carmaker's emissions scandal. Volkswagen (VW) shares plunged more than 18% on Monday after US regulators found that some of its cars could manipulate official emissions tests. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) found that software in several diesel cars could deceive regulators. Volkswagen was ordered to recall half a million cars in the US on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottincarlisle Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Does this mean the VW campervan I'm after will come down in price ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Does this mean the VW campervan I'm after will come down in price ??? You should watch Pawn Stars Rick Harrison has been after after a 23 window VW bus for ages He had the chance of this one http://www.autocollections.com/index.cfm?id=1315&action=details&tab=inventory&sortorder=car but they wanted something way over $130,000 or the likes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottincarlisle Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Bit over my £15,000 budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 A few here http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/list/43/bus/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 There is talk that it could affect a few other makes of cars as well. Hope my Volvo isn't one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Naughty VW. Took a chance and got caught out. They should've realised the USA have previous when it comes to cutting a foreign big player down to size eg. BP... Edited September 22, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Very un-German. Quite surprised at this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'm not surprised this has been going on and I'll bet all the car makers are at it to a certain extent. Achieving a good score on the EU test cycle gets a lot of focus these days from buyers. A low score equals low VED and low company car tax, and also claims of high MPG. I'm not sure how the US test cycle compares to the EU one though and we've not heard exactly how they were 'cheating' It isnt a exactly a new thing either. With the invention of fuel injection and engine management systems most cars had a point in the rev range where they would 'lean off' usually around 3000rpm. This was to give better MPG's at the 56mph test speed that was used. Another thing the VW group engines are used across VW, Audi, Skoda and SEAT and even certain Jeep models. No mention of these companies, or maybe they're not sold in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffer Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Guy on radio four this morning said pretty much the same - all manufacturers are at it, with a software system which knows when it's being tested. He said their independent tests showed particle emissions at five to ten times the legal limit when the software didn't kick in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) When you look at the latest BMW wankmobile then see the claimed emissions figures and MPG then you know a certain amount of fiddling is going on - no way you would get these figures on the road. Always best to take the figures from a road test by a car mag. Edited September 22, 2015 by Armchair Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Basically they have designed the car to do well in tests. What's the problem? Someone in authority decided what the test was to be and the VW engineers have designed engines that achieve good results in that specific test regime. Sounds like clever engineering to me. The tests are not realistic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Basically they have designed the car to do well in tests. What's the problem? Someone in authority decided what the test was to be and the VW engineers have designed engines that achieve good results in that specific test regime. Sounds like clever engineering to me. The tests are not realistic anyway. A fair point. However, Im not sure that defence stands up in the court of public opinion. I'd be pretty pi$$ed if a car company sold me a supposedly "clean" car, only for me to find out what they meant was, they knew how to cheat a test. I dont think anyone at VW can complain if I choose to stay well clear of VW because of this, and as a result, investors run a mile. What next? They knew how to cheat the Crash Test Dummy test? Hell mend them, and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Buy FIAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Realise VW huv been cheating but surely their tweaking is nothing compared tae America's industrial emissions in general pots and kettles Edited September 22, 2015 by bonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Basically they have designed the car to do well in tests. What's the problem? Someone in authority decided what the test was to be and the VW engineers have designed engines that achieve good results in that specific test regime. Sounds like clever engineering to me. The tests are not realistic anyway. Also if your car has low emmissions you pay lower road tax, therefore the government have been diddled out of millions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Also if your car has low emmissions you pay lower road tax, therefore the government have been diddled out of millions What goes around comes around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Also if your car has low emmissions you pay lower road tax, therefore the government have been diddled out of millionsHave they though?It was them that set the criteria for the test. Edited September 22, 2015 by deecie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasMc1973 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 the govt set the test levels, VW matched that in a Test setting, but on the road they are pumping out NO2 by the bucket load when they should be paying higher road tax. It's the focus on reducing NO2 now and not CO2 that means diesels are getting targeted again.... in the end it's the punters on the road who will get screwed one way or the other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 the whole emissions test thing is a con that suits all sides. The EU/government says they've brought down co2 emissions and cleaned up diesels. The car manufacturers claim they've hit the targets and are selling 'eco' cars and joe public gets £30 a year VED and thinks they are getting 65mpg. Somebody in the US has now blew the whistle on this con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 To be fair its the same with top speeds and 0-60 times. Something like 90% of manufacturers get these figures from testing in sterile conditions on a rolling road. They had a piece about it on iirc 5th gear and the only car they tested that got anywhere near the stated figures was the arial atom and that was only after one of there guys showed them how to launch the atom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 the whole emissions test thing is a con that suits all sides. The EU/government says they've brought down co2 emissions and cleaned up diesels. The car manufacturers claim they've hit the targets and are selling 'eco' cars and joe public gets £30 a year VED and thinks they are getting 65mpg. Somebody in the US has now blew the whistle on this con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 there is a lot still to come out here. I worked in the embedded software area of the auto industry in Germany for many years. The number of people involved in development and test of emissions limits, engine control software development, hardware design, etc, etc is huge..... this would require a very large conspiracy across many engineers & developers not only in VW but in suppliers outside of the company. (Bosch, Siemens, Continental etc) Additionally vehicle test and qualification, in Germany and in other countries is rigorous. I cannot comprehend such a conspiracy - it would reach far beyond VW... On the surface it looks easy to put a software switch in there (and technically it is) - but to make this work and to not even have your competitors know about it would be staggering - they all have hangar sized garages full of each others cars and work intensely on reverse engineering and analysis not buying what seems to have come out so far.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 It was astonishing to hear the VW head of america coming out and apologising so openly and unreservedly. I am presuming their UK models will also be under scrutiny and their road tax may be re-evaluated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Has the feel of it being the tip of the iceberg. Governance clearly lacking, will definitely not just be Volkswagen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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