aaid Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 The first point is simply wrong the Polytechnics were universities as they had degree awarding powers but they were centrally governed and not standalone institution in addition they had a technical focus on the whole offered engineering and science degrees. Additionally, there were only two in Scotland, RGIT in Aberdeen and Paisley Tech. I was at RGIT from 1983 to 1986 and there was a lot of discussion at the time over converting to university status, I have a vague memory of there being a vote which was defeated - the general view among the student body was it was better to remain a central institution. Not sure about Paisley but RGIT was primarily vocational degrees, postgraduate diplomas and full time HNDs. I think along with the six original universities, these were the only institutions awarding degrees in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It was the Tories that introduced the 'University of Polytechnic' system, which encouraged new 'universities' to offer ridiculous courses like 'Media studies' to grab money from kids that should never have been in further academic studies in the first place. University should only be for the academic cream, not for kids that should be in employment after leaving school, or in further education colleges learning a trade. It's akin to the 'owning your house' mantra which dictates that you're only succesful if you own property and have been to university. It;s the right-wing principle adopted with slavish devotion from the USA, and which is largely rejected by most European countries....almost all of whom have a much smaller gap between the haves and have nots than the UK. That's the thing that gets me.why is it you have to go to uni to be seen as successful? Some people are not good at learning from books but ask them to make something from wood or metal and they could make something without thinking about it. Surely successfully completing an trade apprenticeship should be seen as success. Without meaning to degrade folk who went to uni but for a lot of them they are fine when things have to be done by the book but when problems crop up its those who went the apprentice route who usually come up with a work around because of the practical experience they have gained. (Can only talk in terms of engineering\manufacturing terms as that's my line of work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 It was the Tories that introduced the 'University of Polytechnic' system, which encouraged new 'universities' to offer ridiculous courses like 'Media studies' to grab money from kids that should never have been in further academic studies in the first place. University should only be for the academic cream, not for kids that should be in employment after leaving school, or in further education colleges learning a trade. It's akin to the 'owning your house' mantra which dictates that you're only succesful if you own property and have been to university. It;s the right-wing principle adopted with slavish devotion from the USA, and which is largely rejected by most European countries....almost all of whom have a much smaller gap between the haves and have nots than the UK. Good post. Totally agree. The skilled sector in Scotland doesn't solely start in Uni. A severe lack of apprenticeships is badly dumbing down a Scots workforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Additionally, there were only two in Scotland, RGIT in Aberdeen and Paisley Tech. I was at RGIT from 1983 to 1986 and there was a lot of discussion at the time over converting to university status, I have a vague memory of there being a vote which was defeated - the general view among the student body was it was better to remain a central institution. Not sure about Paisley but RGIT was primarily vocational degrees, postgraduate diplomas and full time HNDs. I think along with the six original universities, these were the only institutions awarding degrees in the country. You've forgotten Napier which was actually called Napier Polytechnic for a short period of time and Glasgow Polytechnic (now Glasgow Caledonian). The polytechnics awarded CNAA (Council for National Academic Awards) degrees which were arguably more rigorous than the university awarded degrees as they were centrally controlled and quality could be benchmarked across the all the polytechnics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Surely successfully completing an trade apprenticeship should be seen as success. It certainly should but people shouldn't be forced to take than route which is what Rossy is suggested. The biggest problem with apprenticeships is that as the number of large firms in Scotland has decreased so have the the number of apprenticeships, I'd suggest most of these are in the public sector but here a lot of the apprentices get laid off when they finish their apprenticeship i.e. when the government subsidy stops and they're no longer cheap labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You've forgotten Napier which was actually called Napier Polytechnic for a short period of time and Glasgow Polytechnic (now Glasgow Caledonian). The polytechnics awarded CNAA (Council for National Academic Awards) degrees which were arguably more rigorous than the university awarded degrees as they were centrally controlled and quality could be benchmarked across the all the polytechnics. Totally forgot about Napier but I didn't think Glasgow Tech awarded degrees at that time. The point you make about the CNAA degrees is spot on and that was the main reason behind RGIT not converting to a University at that point. I have to declare an interest though as I have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) Totally forgot about Napier but I didn't think Glasgow Tech awarded degrees at that time. The point you make about the CNAA degrees is spot on and that was the main reason behind RGIT not converting to a University at that point. I have to declare an interest though as I have one. I'd argue that there was nothing wrong with the Polytechnic system (there would have been no grade inflation nonsense for a start and no VCs effectively giving themselves huge wage rises) but Thatcherite dogma won the day. Edited October 6, 2015 by Larky Masher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 You've forgotten Napier which was actually called Napier Polytechnic for a short period of time and Glasgow Polytechnic (now Glasgow Caledonian). The polytechnics awarded CNAA (Council for National Academic Awards) degrees which were arguably more rigorous than the university awarded degrees as they were centrally controlled and quality could be benchmarked across the all the polytechnics. Forgot about Abertay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Forgot about Abertay. Of course, where Maurice Malpas got his degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Education is so poor under SNP rule - that Labour can't even spell words correctly in their PPB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Education is so poor under SNP rule - that Labour can't even spell words correctly in their PPB... They really are a phuqqing shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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