National Anthem

[RenfrewBlue]

This is the detail considered replys i was expecting. Point proved.

What were you expecting? This is a football fans board not the UN.

Grow up.

I've told you where to look for the real facts so you need to get up off your lazy selfish arse and look at them or do you only do spoon feeding?

[Big Bill]

95% of people who voted no didn't do it out of the love for the union but for what they thought was better for Scotland, it was too easy to vote yes without thinking about the ramifications like a lot of yes voters did.

I have hardly heard a valid reason for anybody voting yes other than the idealistic view. I would have flipping loved to vote yes but the figures didn't add up. I am not saying there arnt valid reasons so feel free to tell me without making the usual empty statements that iv heard so far from most people.

The amount of people who have voted based on their football allegiance is sickening. Rangers, Celtic and Scotland fans on the whole have voted very predictably. If it makes me a traitor for voting what's best for my family then so be it.

The independence argument didn't add up one bit, from the inflated oil revenues, to the uncertain currency union which isn't as simple as using the pound and I would pray if you voted you would know this, to the very unlikely entry to NATO & the EU. The threat to walk away from the debt was embarrassing as well, I would be embarrassed to call myself Scottish if we done that. Jobs would have been lost as well 100%

The anger should be aimed at those who gave the flimsiest proposals to the country because had the case been stronger it would undoubtedly have been a YES vote and trust me I would have been the first to do it. Instead the people who fucked this up are being portrayed as heroes. IT would 100% have been a yes vote had they done a better job of their policies instead of aiming for the brain dead, blind faith and young voters.

Independence will come in time 100%

Do not divide the TA like the rest of the country has already been divided.

I know most will abuse me but at least its off my chest

One of the most rational and better posts on here and I would take the argument even further. I doubt whether anything like 95% of No voters considered two hoots what was better for Scotland. I genuinely believe that for the vast majority it narrowed down to what was better for them and their family. A class war developed with the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade understandably refusing to risk their standard of living for the unknown. Those further down the income league would have nothing to lose and the prospect of independence provided an element of hope that they are currently denied.

It seems to me that the outcome is still a result for all home based Scots in the form of more statutory powers (particularly tax raising and welfare) whilst maintaining the current infrastructure and financial stability that the UK and in particular, sterling provides. Remember, these 'new powers' were not even on the table a fortnight ago! Senior UK politicians are even now talking about social justice i.e. Increasing the minimum wage to £8 - where did that come from? Separatists will have inevitably learned from this campaign and I agree that independence will happen in the future!

[scoobydoo]

It seems to me that the outcome is still a result for all home based Scots in the form of more statutory powers (particularly tax raising and welfare) whilst maintaining the current infrastructure and financial stability that the UK and in particular, sterling provides. Remember, these 'new powers' were not even on the table a fortnight ago! Senior UK politicians are even now talking about social justice i.e. Increasing the minimum wage to £8 - where did that come from? Separatists will have inevitably learned from this campaign and I agree that independence will happen in the future!

Hate to tell you but these 'new' powers, such as the reintroduction of the dog licence, will probably never happen.

[KirkieRobRoy]

The anthem at the Georgia game will be a weird experience 'We can still rise now...' Aye, right. On another forum I noticed someone suggested ditching FoS for Scotland the Brave. 'Brave'? Aye, right.

An old kitsch tartanry song came intae ma heid the yesterday when I was hillwalking. Here are the words I changed as I hummed along.

For these are their mountains.

And this is their glen.

The braes of my childhood

Are London's again...

[iainmac1]

Wha will be a traitor knave? Wha will fill a coward's grave?

Hepickedupaball

[RenfrewBlue]

One of the most rational and better posts on here and I would take the argument even further. I doubt whether anything like 95% of No voters considered two hoots what was better for Scotland. I genuinely believe that for the vast majority it narrowed down to what was better for them and their family. A class war developed with the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade understandably refusing to risk their standard of living for the unknown. Those further down the income league would have nothing to lose and the prospect of independence provided an element of hope that they are currently denied.

It seems to me that the outcome is still a result for all home based Scots in the form of more statutory powers (particularly tax raising and welfare) whilst maintaining the current infrastructure and financial stability that the UK and in particular, sterling provides. Remember, these 'new powers' were not even on the table a fortnight ago! Senior UK politicians are even now talking about social justice i.e. Increasing the minimum wage to £8 - where did that come from? Separatists will have inevitably learned from this campaign and I agree that independence will happen in the future!

If you believe this then you're the most gullible fool in these boards. The promise of more powers has evaporated already in the Westminster shitstorm. You and the rest of the 55% have voted to bend over and take it big style.

[Malcolm]

One of the most rational and better posts on here and I would take the argument even further. I doubt whether anything like 95% of No voters considered two hoots what was better for Scotland. I genuinely believe that for the vast majority it narrowed down to what was better for them and their family. A class war developed with the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade understandably refusing to risk their standard of living for the unknown. Those further down the income league would have nothing to lose and the prospect of independence provided an element of hope that they are currently denied.

It seems to me that the outcome is still a result for all home based Scots in the form of more statutory powers (particularly tax raising and welfare) whilst maintaining the current infrastructure and financial stability that the UK and in particular, sterling provides. Remember, these 'new powers' were not even on the table a fortnight ago! Senior UK politicians are even now talking about social justice i.e. Increasing the minimum wage to £8 - where did that come from? Separatists will have inevitably learned from this campaign and I agree that independence will happen in the future!

Not convinced.... Im someone who you would consider in the 'im alright jack' brigade.... I voted Yes. It came down to identity... Im not interested in the tax powers or any of that... In fact politically i oppose the snp.... What i want is simple.... Self determination and scotland as a soverign nation.

[Big Bill]

If you believe this then you're the most gullible fool in these boards. The promise of more powers has evaporated already in the Westminster shitstorm. You and the rest of the 55% have voted to bend over and take it big style.

I was actually one of the 45% and now trying hard to find some positives!

[hamilton wanderer]

The national football team is a way to keep the movement growing. The genie is well and truly out of the bottle. I was devastated however I now feel really positive about it all. Salmond mentioned that a base camp had been established a good way up the mountain. I would add that perhaps the winter months have set in just as we are 90% up the mountain and we just need to batton down the hatches and stay where we are... One day the clouds will clear the sun will come out and we will march to the top.

[scoobydoo]

Pish. Last week was the golden opportunity and too many shat themselves.

[hamilton wanderer]

No I remember the humiliation and devastation of Argentina '78 followed a year later by a failure to get a vote through for devolution. We picked ourselves up and slowly the movement has grown. We could not even muster 30% support for independence at that point. Our day WILL come

[1320lichtie]

This is the detail considered replys i was expecting. Point proved.

On reflection after a few days thinking about it I am gutted about the outcome, I just can't hide my disappointment.

Where do we go from here as a 'country'? (more a colony in my opinion to be honest) Personally, on Friday morning, I lost a whole lot of hope, spirit and enthusiasm. Just when I had properly engaged in politics for the first time and seen this bright new light and opportunity for Scotland it disappeared. The idea of independence excited me greatly.

Now I feel like the majority of Scotland has no desire to improve things for ourselves or just genuinely can't be bothered having to actually take an interest.

Eyes shut, back in box, carry on without having a scooby what's going on again politically. It's all rather uninspiring.

Scotland is the only place in the world that will moan like f**k about everything but not have the bottle to do anything about it, between football and this I'd say we were the worlds biggest bottlers. We wait until our biggest moments to mess things up. Definitely not Scotland the Brave anyway which I believed whilst growing up. I thought before this actually came up when I was younger that presented with this chance (which I never thought we'd get) we the proud Scots would stand up and take things into our own hands. I thought it would be a landslide win for YES. I certainly never thought OVER HALF the country would VOTE AGAINST our nations independence anyway especially with our proud history.

I know some people are genuinely happy with the way things were/are at the moment (I understand Farmers voting No etc even if I do think it's maybe short sighted from them I get that) or how things were/are personally for themselves but the VAST majority of instances for voting No I've saw have been from people who said we weren't capable or couldn't manage or were scared which is truly frightening to hear.

Who's brainwashed people into thinking we aren't capable FFS? We have EVERYTHING we need to be a success, I didn't get the whole people being to scared to 'risk' it argument, personally I think staying in a country that has no real control over itself is MUCH more of a risk. Maybe that's just me though. I think we will see some big changes for the worse that we have no say on now.

Shite times for this country. Possibly the shittest few days of my 22 year old life as silly and sad as that may sound. I'm also disgusted by the media, referendum or not it shows that the people at the top feed news to people that suits their own messed up agenda. The official BT campaign should also hang their heads in shame, scaring and threatening pensioners amongst some other things are truly the lowest of low. They had the establishment to back up their lies though conveniently.

Looking around to other countries and finding myself extremely extremely extremely embarrassed right now, I mean there's Ireland just across the water, they faced genuine resistance in the way of them being able to "be a nation again", but they went and did it because they knew they could do it, they fought and died for it ironically enough. All we faced was the least convincing embarrassingly negative political campaign possibly ever seen which basically said to us "careful now lads"... and what did we do? We shat our wee pants. We couldn't even cross enough boxes with a pencil FFS what a pathetic excuse of a 'nation'. There's little tiny Malta with nowhere near what we have celebrating their Independence Day yesterday and partying away..

Controversial but No voters still think we can be this proud wee quirky nation because we can still dress up in kilts and play the bagpipes, 90 minute Scots etc, but when it comes to demanding the right to have our own powers and make politicians accountable to us (what being a nation/country should be about, that's all it was at the end of the day, not this big scary thing people were making out) we don't want it. We'd rather let someone else do the hard work and thinking for us. It's not about Scottishness/Britishness it's about wanting to be able to influence any change to the way we live!

The big saving grace is the turnout, atleast 85 percent made their voices heard. I am genuinely 100 percent proud of that. But of the outcome I'm anything but. But that's the democratic will of the people of Scotland right now and I accept that, I know I am in the MINORITY right now in saying all this.

We've became a colony or a region of the UK, we had the chance to change that for the 1st time and to be a country but we chose not to. A colony by definition is a territory (Scotland) under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the sovereign. (England)

England controls us. What THE GOOD PEOPLE OF ENGLAND want is what WE get. Westminster controls our parliament. Our parliament survives off of grants and 'devolved powers' from another one that controls it. THEY decide what WE can do. They're already going back on everything they've said, they've lied, but now we are POWERLESS to change it as we are such a small irrelevant part of the UK. We have a voice of 5 million in a Union of 65 million. I think it really hit home when reading comments on social media from English people saying that we belong to them, how can we argue that? We can't.

I'm sorry for the novel and being an opinionated wee tadger but I love Scotland and feel like and know we can do so much better than this. I want Scotland to be a NORMAL country. YES reached 45% we are not toooo far off it, it's a large minority, it won't go off the agenda just like how the previous devolution ones never.

We and I may never see another referendum in our lifetimes, maybe not for another 100 year but I'll live in hope and right up until the day I die I'll try to do my upmost best to work on helping Scotland towards Independence and in my opinion a fairer society.

In the meantime I'll come together with everyone else after the NO, I'll hope the 55 percent stand up and be counted to make Westminster accountable to improve things for Scotland and our people and get on with my life.

I don't have much faith of that happening or of any change here though I'm afraid to say. Well change for the better anyway..

Which feels horrible after turning down such a huge huge opportunity. I hope nobody regrets their vote but I have a feeling that in 10 year time there'll be a higher proportion of Scots claiming they voted Yes than the percentage of Celtic fans claiming they were in Seville..

[1320lichtie]

Also what were the hard facts and figures from the No side regarding EU/NHS/Barnett Formula/Devolved Powers etc? Joke.

[albathebrave]

95% of people who voted no didn't do it out of the love for the union but for what they thought was better for Scotland, it was too easy to vote yes without thinking about the ramifications like a lot of yes voters did.

I have hardly heard a valid reason for anybody voting yes other than the idealistic view. I would have flipping loved to vote yes but the figures didn't add up. I am not saying there arnt valid reasons so feel free to tell me without making the usual empty statements that iv heard so far from most people.

The amount of people who have voted based on their football allegiance is sickening. Rangers, Celtic and Scotland fans on the whole have voted very predictably. If it makes me a traitor for voting what's best for my family then so be it.

The independence argument didn't add up one bit, from the inflated oil revenues, to the uncertain currency union which isn't as simple as using the pound and I would pray if you voted you would know this, to the very unlikely entry to NATO & the EU. The threat to walk away from the debt was embarrassing as well, I would be embarrassed to call myself Scottish if we done that. Jobs would have been lost as well 100%

The anger should be aimed at those who gave the flimsiest proposals to the country because had the case been stronger it would undoubtedly have been a YES vote and trust me I would have been the first to do it. Instead the people who fucked this up are being portrayed as heroes. IT would 100% have been a yes vote had they done a better job of their policies instead of aiming for the brain dead, blind faith and young voters.

Independence will come in time 100%

Do not divide the TA like the rest of the country has already been divided.

I know most will abuse me but at least its off my chest

Not abuse you just differ from youre opinion. 100 percent shite thats my opinion!

[Godstar]

No I remember the humiliation and devastation of Argentina '78 followed a year later by a failure to get a vote through for devolution. We picked ourselves up and slowly the movement has grown. We could not even muster 30% support for independence at that point. Our day WILL come

Sorry you remember the devolution vote wrong

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

It was 51,9%

[Hepickedupaball]

Sorry I don't know how to quote on this but Ireland was mentioned. Would most of u want independance at any cost? Even if we ended up like Ireland or spain?

I would love independance but only under the right conditions.

[Hepickedupaball]

Sorry I don't know how to quote on this but Ireland was mentioned. Would most of u want independance at any cost? Even if we ended up like Ireland or spain?

I would love independance but only under the right conditions.

[mariokempes56]

Troll off somewhere else.....so fekkin tiresome.

[Newryrep]

Yeah you are probably right , if say the UK government encouraged a disgruntled minority to procure arms thus bringing the gun into Scottish politics all because of the pursuit of power at Westminster you may have a point otherwise its just another scare story and not a very good one

And you can drop the charade and really wanting independence for your country, I don't think many are buying it

[The Laud]

The biased media stuff was a bit of a smoke screen to divert from the real issues of questions not being answered. They wanted to do everything but debate their policies.

Salmond & sturgeon got away constantly without answering questions so if the media were that biased they would have nailed them far more than they did. Look at the bedroom tax vote where only 2 SNP MP's turned up to vote, scandalous yet it didn't get too much coverage and he even used it in his speech the night before the referendum which sickened me.

I would also ask is the wee blue book not biased in favour of yes? I think you will find it even says it has a pro independent slant. As I said earlier I read a lot from people who were not involved on either side to get a more balanced view.

I don't and would never claim to be a socialist so im happy to be selfish for my family.

I hope your not claiming to be a scotsman.you had the chance but threw it away to be british.

[The Laud]

On reflection after a few days thinking about it I am gutted about the outcome, I just can't hide my disappointment.

Where do we go from here as a 'country'? (more a colony in my opinion to be honest) Personally, on Friday morning, I lost a whole lot of hope, spirit and enthusiasm. Just when I had properly engaged in politics for the first time and seen this bright new light and opportunity for Scotland it disappeared. The idea of independence excited me greatly.

Now I feel like the majority of Scotland has no desire to improve things for ourselves or just genuinely can't be bothered having to actually take an interest.

Eyes shut, back in box, carry on without having a flipping scooby what's going on again politically. It's all rather uninspiring.

Scotland is the only place in the world that will moan like f**k about everything but not have the bottle to do anything about it, between football and this I'd say we were the worlds biggest bottlers. We wait until our biggest moments to mess things up. Definitely not Scotland the Brave anyway which I believed whilst growing up. I thought before this actually came up when I was younger that presented with this chance (which I never thought we'd get) we the proud Scots would stand up and take things into our own hands. I thought it would be a landslide win for YES. I certainly never thought OVER HALF the country would VOTE AGAINST our nations independence anyway especially with our proud history.

I know some people are genuinely happy with the way things were/are at the moment (I understand Farmers voting No etc even if I do think it's maybe short sighted from them I get that) or how things were/are personally for themselves but the VAST majority of instances for voting No I've saw have been from people who said we weren't capable or couldn't manage or were scared which is truly frightening to hear.

Who's brainwashed people into thinking we aren't capable FFS? We have EVERYTHING we need to be a success, I didn't get the whole people being to scared to 'risk' it argument, personally I think staying in a country that has no real control over itself is MUCH more of a risk. Maybe that's just me though. I think we will see some big changes for the worse that we have no say on now.

Shite times for this country. Possibly the shittest few days of my 22 year old life as silly and sad as that may sound. I'm also disgusted by the media, referendum or not it shows that the people at the top feed news to people that suits their own messed up agenda. The official BT campaign should also hang their heads in shame, scaring and threatening pensioners amongst some other things are truly the lowest of low. They had the establishment to back up their lies though conveniently.

Looking around to other countries and finding myself extremely extremely extremely embarrassed right now, I mean there's Ireland just across the water, they faced genuine resistance in the way of them being able to "be a nation again", but they went and did it because they knew they could do it, they fought and died for it ironically enough. All we faced was the least convincing embarrassingly negative political campaign possibly ever seen which basically said to us "careful now lads"... and what did we do? We shat our wee pants. We couldn't even cross enough boxes with a pencil FFS what a pathetic excuse of a 'nation'. There's little tiny Malta with nowhere near what we have celebrating their Independence Day yesterday and partying away..

Controversial but No voters still think we can be this proud wee quirky nation because we can still dress up in kilts and play the bagpipes, 90 minute Scots etc, but when it comes to demanding the right to have our own powers and make politicians accountable to us (what being a nation/country should be about, that's all it was at the end of the day, not this big scary thing people were making out) we don't want it. We'd rather let someone else do the hard work and thinking for us. It's not about Scottishness/Britishness it's about wanting to be able to influence any change to the way we live!

The big saving grace is the turnout, atleast 85 percent made their voices heard. I am genuinely 100 percent proud of that. But of the outcome I'm anything but. But that's the democratic will of the people of Scotland right now and I accept that, I know I am in the MINORITY right now in saying all this.

We've became a colony or a region of the UK, we had the chance to change that for the 1st time and to be a country but we chose not to. A colony by definition is a territory (Scotland) under the immediate political control of a state, distinct from the home territory of the sovereign. (England)

England controls us. What THE GOOD PEOPLE OF ENGLAND want is what WE get. Westminster controls our parliament. Our parliament survives off of grants and 'devolved powers' from another one that controls it. THEY decide what WE can do. They're already going back on everything they've said, they've lied, but now we are POWERLESS to change it as we are such a small irrelevant part of the UK. We have a voice of 5 million in a Union of 65 million. I think it really hit home when reading comments on social media from English people saying that we belong to them, how can we argue that? We can't.

I'm sorry for the novel and being an opinionated wee tadger but I love Scotland and feel like and know we can do so much better than this. I want Scotland to be a NORMAL country. YES reached 45% we are not toooo far off it, it's a large minority, it won't go off the agenda just like how the previous devolution ones never.

We and I may never see another referendum in our lifetimes, maybe not for another 100 year but I'll live in hope and right up until the day I die I'll try to do my upmost best to work on helping Scotland towards Independence and in my opinion a fairer society.

In the meantime I'll come together with everyone else after the NO, I'll hope the 55 percent stand up and be counted to make Westminster accountable to improve things for Scotland and our people and get on with my life.

I don't have much faith of that happening or of any change here though I'm afraid to say. Well change for the better anyway..

Which feels horrible after turning down such a huge huge opportunity. I hope nobody regrets their vote but I have a feeling that in 10 year time there'll be a higher proportion of Scots claiming they voted Yes than the percentage of Celtic fans claiming they were in Seville..

Great post neebur, you are not alone.

[Hepickedupaball]

No bother I'm not scottish then. If u say so then it must be true.

Scotland must only have 1.6m people in it in your argument so wouldn't be much of a sucess.

Is it a coincidence that all the Celtic fans cling onto the yes & 45 stuff because it suits their agendas and not for the love of Scotland not everybody who voted yes done it for the same reason as you guys.

I respect yous sticking to your guns with your vote even though I think it's not for the correct reasons. I know countless people who voted yes and have never been to a Scotland game in their life and pound me for going home and away. That I can't stomach

[hamilton wanderer]

Sorry you remember the devolution vote wrong

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979

It was 51,9%

I didn't remember it wrong. We needed 40% of the electorate to get devolution and although 51.9 % of those who voted was for yes it did not reach the magic figure.

There was obviously no Independence vote them - the 30% was based on opinion polls

[exile]

When supporting Scotland, personally I think it's best to leave politics behind and all be of one voice, not different factions trying to sing different things.

With FoS, it'sOK - normally - because people can sing the same words but be thinking different things. The lyrics can refer to past, present and/or future....

Normally. But I think it would be very strange to sing the 'be the nation again' line against England of all teams, at Hampden of all places.

But what's the alternative? Scotland the Brave?

It's possible that by the time of the game, people could be ready to go back to singing the same words but thinking different things...

[Big Bill]

Should we not have segregation? Different stands for separatists and unionists (if any are interested in attending). This would minimise the risk of it kicking off!