Strikers

[LewisEDI]

Martin will be back for sure when fit. Fletcher and Naismith will start both games I think and I could see griffiths and russel/may getting a half in the n Ireland game

[Robroysboy]

Gibraltar I think he will start Fletcher again, and probably only sub him when he feels the scoreline is comfortable/respectable (with maybe a hope he will grab a couple of goals to get his goal scoring with Scotland going).

Good point if Fletcher can't get a goal against and gibraltar he may never score. Strikers breed on confidence and maybe he just needs one to kick-start his goal scoring again. He's out of the frame at club level with Defoe taking his place at Sunderland, that is a concern.

[Tartan blood]

Good point if Fletcher can't get a goal against and gibraltar he may never score. Strikers breed on confidence and maybe he just needs one to kick-start his goal scoring again. He's out of the frame at club level with Defoe taking his place at Sunderland, that is a concern.

Strachan happily left out Darren Fletcher when he wasn't getting a game for Man Utd, so that may suggest he'll do the same for his namesake.

It is great that we are having a debate about in-form/playing/scoring strikers. We have 7 realistic options (Fletcher, Griffiths, May, Watt, McCormack, Martin, Rhodes) plus a couple others that can play there (Naismith, Russell).

I can't remember the last time we had that many to choose from!

Edited March 4, 2015 by Tartan blood

[Al1978]

Strachan happily left out Darren Fletcher when he wasn't getting a game for Man Utd, so that may suggest he'll do the same for his namesake.

It is great that we are having a debate about in-form/playing/scoring strikers. We have 7 realistic options (Fletcher, Griffiths, May, Watt, McCormack, Martin, Rhodes) plus a couple others that can play there (Naismith, Russell).

I can't remember the last time we had that many to choose from!

It's good having 9 decent strikers. Be nice to have a really good one though.

[PASTA Mick]

It's good having 9 decent strikers. Be nice to have a really good one though.

I just wish we had one really good striker.

I personally think Watt is the most talented.

[TartanDave]

Always really like McCormack when I watch him, think he's very talented. Not really suited to lone striker role though, would always have him in my squads! Would like to see Fletcher, Griffiths, Naimsith, McCormack and Rhodes/Watt personally. Although wouldn't be particularly bothered if Watt was left out as I can see both sides of argument. Hoping we get to see at least 45 minutes of Gauld playing off Fletcher in these two games, think that could be a very exciting partnership! Both highly intelligent players!

[gordont86]

Never to early for watt, a friendly v norn iron and a game against gibraltar are the ideal games to try out new players

Charlton have turned it around and Watt is starting games and impressing.

Early days yet and he needs to keep it up. I think its 3 goals in 6 games.

[Tartan blood]

Always really like McCormack when I watch him, think he's very talented. Not really suited to lone striker role though, would always have him in my squads! Would like to see Fletcher, Griffiths, Naimsith, McCormack and Rhodes/Watt personally. Although wouldn't be particularly bothered if Watt was left out as I can see both sides of argument. Hoping we get to see at least 45 minutes of Gauld playing off Fletcher in these two games, think that could be a very exciting partnership! Both highly intelligent players!

Well Gauld got called up on the back of some B team performances. He's now made quite a few appearances for the A team and impressed. NI or Gibraltar would be perfect to get him some experience.

I'd love to see Watt, Gauld, GMS and Armstrong all playing together in the front 4 to see how it looks because, if they all continue their progression, then it could be our long term front line. Obviously years away from that yet, though.

[girvanTA]

I just wish that the defence had plenty of cover

[andyD]

Stevie May - Has had pretty shocking service all season, but Wednesday fans are actually asking for him to be back in the team, in place of a loanee from Man Utd. Still young and learning. 8 goals for the season.

Jordan Rhodes - Not a surefire starter at Blackburn. He's only started half the games since the turn of the year, often on the bench instead. Probably needs a move to get back in the groove and push his case. 13 for the season.

Tony Watt - Only been at Charlton for a dozen games. Made an ok start there, was a flop at Liege and only had 2 good weeks a Lierse. He undoubtedly has talent, but hasn't done nearly enough to earn a senior start. 6 goals for the season.

Ross McCormack - Had a relatively tough time of it since the big money move to Fulham. Has been used deeper and the team about him is struggling and will likely finish 1 place above relegation. 12 for the season.

Leigh Griffiths - Had a good 6 weeks, rank before that. Not convinced he really makes a difference, especially in big games. A lot of his goals don't really matter (scoring in 4-0 wins etc) and the manager doesn't trust him in Europe. Has just 5 spfl goals.. for Celtic.. that's poor whichever way you slice it. 10 for the season.

Steven Fletcher - Largely coming off the bench lately for Sunderland. He's spent the season coming deeper and deeper because those behind him are so abysmal. His link up for us has been great and he laid on goals and chances when he's played. 4 for the season.

Chris Martin - The highest scoring player we have by a long way. Leads the line for the best footballing side in the championship, even if he's yet to firmly find his feet for us. 19 for the season.

Steven Naismith - Being used as a support striker in a misfiring Everton side, tho most of their fans seem to think he's better as a no9. Tends to score in big games (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City this season). 9 for the season.

-------------------

For me the best choice is Naismith. He's bossed games when he's played up top for us. Uses the ball intelligently and makes space for others. Surround him with Anya, Maloney and Russell and we should do well.

Fletcher deserves a call up for his recent performances. He hasn't scored but he's made valuable contributions and is probably the best replacement for Naismith. Martin's the next in terms of merit. He plays the same kind of role we want a striker to play and he's outscored all his peers by a distance. The idea that he should be bombed out of the squad because he wasn't amazing against England, in his first ever start for us, is not something I can agree with.

So for me, that's our three strikers for the time being.

[LewisEDI]

griffiths was out the team for a long time or just coming off the bench, he is on fire just now and he started against inter milan at home and was ruled out for the away leg as he was injured, he is celtics number one striker just now and bang in form, but some people obviously on here hold a grudge against him for non footballing reasons.

same goes for watt.

get them both in the squad.

Edited March 10, 2015 by LewisEDI

[wanderer]

Squad must be pretty close to be announced, as Gibraltar are naming theirs today and Poland will be naming their squad in the next couple of days (seems they have dropped one of their main players from the squad)

[Tartan_Wolf]

if we need any draws Tony Watt is apparently good at time wasting

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/charltons-tony-watt-expert-comes-5270246

[Tartan blood]

Stevie May - Has had pretty shocking service all season, but Wednesday fans are actually asking for him to be back in the team, in place of a loanee from Man Utd. Still young and learning. 8 goals for the season.

Jordan Rhodes - Not a surefire starter at Blackburn. He's only started half the games since the turn of the year, often on the bench instead. Probably needs a move to get back in the groove and push his case. 13 for the season.

Tony Watt - Only been at Charlton for a dozen games. Made an ok start there, was a flop at Liege and only had 2 good weeks a Lierse. He undoubtedly has talent, but hasn't done nearly enough to earn a senior start. 6 goals for the season.

Ross McCormack - Had a relatively tough time of it since the big money move to Fulham. Has been used deeper and the team about him is struggling and will likely finish 1 place above relegation. 12 for the season.

Leigh Griffiths - Had a good 6 weeks, rank before that. Not convinced he really makes a difference, especially in big games. A lot of his goals don't really matter (scoring in 4-0 wins etc) and the manager doesn't trust him in Europe. Has just 5 spfl goals.. for Celtic.. that's poor whichever way you slice it. 10 for the season.

Steven Fletcher - Largely coming off the bench lately for Sunderland. He's spent the season coming deeper and deeper because those behind him are so abysmal. His link up for us has been great and he laid on goals and chances when he's played. 4 for the season.

Chris Martin - The highest scoring player we have by a long way. Leads the line for the best footballing side in the championship, even if he's yet to firmly find his feet for us. 19 for the season.

Steven Naismith - Being used as a support striker in a misfiring Everton side, tho most of their fans seem to think he's better as a no9. Tends to score in big games (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City this season). 9 for the season.

-------------------

For me the best choice is Naismith. He's bossed games when he's played up top for us. Uses the ball intelligently and makes space for others. Surround him with Anya, Maloney and Russell and we should do well.

Fletcher deserves a call up for his recent performances. He hasn't scored but he's made valuable contributions and is probably the best replacement for Naismith. Martin's the next in terms of merit. He plays the same kind of role we want a striker to play and he's outscored all his peers by a distance. The idea that he should be bombed out of the squad because he wasn't amazing against England, in his first ever start for us, is not something I can agree with.

So for me, that's our three strikers for the time being.

Quite critical and selective with your stats there.

Using what you have said; yes, Martin is the top goalscorer but, as you say, he is playing for one of the best attacking teams in the league. The odd game I've watched Derby play, he has been very sluggish and ineffectual, but gets on the end of a lot of chances simply because they create a lot more. I'm in no doubt that Rhodes or McCormack would score just as many if they played his position for Derby.

Fletcher shouldn't be dropped but he shouldn't necessarily start. In one sense, it would be good for him to get goals, but you could argue that would be more valuable to young fringe players that need experience without pressure.

Tony Watt had a lot more than 2 good weeks for Lierse. 10-12 goals and the fans chanting his name. A change of management was what put him out of the Standard Liege team and the current Charlton manager was the guy who signed him for Liege. He's on great form right now and it's not just about his goals. Charlton fans already have a song for him.

Griffiths has been largely played out wide or not at all. Victim to a new management style. Once he acclimatised and played up front he's scored most games and played well. Yes, it might only be over the last 6 weeks but that is the most important period to consider leading up to an international.

Looking at season long stats is pointless if a player hasn't performed in months. You need to look at form and performances, not just goals.

Griffiths and Watt are the 2 that currently deserve it the most

Edited March 10, 2015 by Tartan blood

[Wigtownshire-Matt]

Leigh Griffiths - Had a good 6 weeks, rank before that. Not convinced he really makes a difference, especially in big games. A lot of his goals don't really matter (scoring in 4-0 wins etc) and the manager doesn't trust him in Europe. Has just 5 spfl goals.. for Celtic.. that's poor whichever way you slice it. 10 for the season.

Scored in both of Celtics semi finals this season. I'd class them as big games. Has proven over the last few season he can score all sorts of goals.

Would have no objections to seeing him start.

[andyD]

Scored in both of Celtics semi finals this season. I'd class them as big games. Has proven over the last few season he can score all sorts of goals.

Would have no objections to seeing him start.

One against a poor championship side embroiled in unending turmoil.. and the other against dundee utd minus the their two best players who they sold in january and also with a man less on the field at the time. I make no apologies for not being particularly impressed by him scoring for celtic in those games.

If you play for celtic the bar is higher. You dominate games and get a lot more changes that people do at other clubs, so you should be finding the net a lot more. That he's managed that for the last 6 weeks is a decent sign, but 6 decent weeks shouldn't get you a call up.

[andyD]

Tony Watt had a lot more than 2 good weeks for Lierse. 10-12 goals and the fans chanting his name. A change of management was what put him out of the Standard Liege team and the current Charlton manager was the guy who signed him for Liege. He's on great form right now and it's not just about his goals. Charlton fans already have a song for him.

10-12? He scored 9. 8 in the league. 1 in the cup. 5 of those between the 25th jan and 8th feb. The rest spread out, interspersed with being left out of the squad altogether. The idea that he was prolific for them is just misleading.

He did enough for Liege to gamble on him. He went there, scored 2 in 4 months, got bombed out the side and so trotted off to Charlton.

He's been there 2 months and scored 4 in 12. that's ok. but charlton fans having a song for you after 2 months isnt grounds for an international cap.

I'll stick with Naismith who's playing every week in a higher league, has proved his quality and earned his place. I'll also stick with Steven Fletcher who has still played in 9 of sunderlands last 10 games and has been good for us in recent games, fulfilling exactly the "it's not just about his goals" criteria that you mention.

Watt's chance may come at some point, but can we please let people earn caps instead of just handing them to anyone who had a decent game the weekend before the squad's named.

[er yir macaroon]

10-12? He scored 9. 8 in the league. 1 in the cup. 5 of those between the 25th jan and 8th feb. The rest spread out, interspersed with being left out of the squad altogether. The idea that he was prolific for them is just misleading.

He did enough for Liege to gamble on him. He went there, scored 2 in 4 months, got bombed out the side and so trotted off to Charlton.

He's been there 2 months and scored 4 in 12. that's ok. but charlton fans having a song for you after 2 months isnt grounds for an international cap.

I'll stick with Naismith who's playing every week in a higher league, has proved his quality and earned his place. I'll also stick with Steven Fletcher who has still played in 9 of sunderlands last 10 games and has been good for us in recent games, fulfilling exactly the "it's not just about his goals" criteria that you mention.

Watt's chance may come at some point, but can we please let people earn caps instead of just handing them to anyone who had a decent game the weekend before the squad's named.

I don't think anyone's calling for Naismith to be dropped although they were a couple of years ago. I'd stick with him and Fletcher but we need more than that in the squad. For me Russell (who is still a striker) and Watt have the most potential to step up, partly on account of their strength and pace. So unless you want two strikers in the squad you need to come up with some alternatives.

[Tartan blood]

10-12? He scored 9. 8 in the league. 1 in the cup. 5 of those between the 25th jan and 8th feb. The rest spread out, interspersed with being left out of the squad altogether. The idea that he was prolific for them is just misleading.

He did enough for Liege to gamble on him. He went there, scored 2 in 4 months, got bombed out the side and so trotted off to Charlton.

He's been there 2 months and scored 4 in 12. that's ok. but charlton fans having a song for you after 2 months isnt grounds for an international cap.

I'll stick with Naismith who's playing every week in a higher league, has proved his quality and earned his place. I'll also stick with Steven Fletcher who has still played in 9 of sunderlands last 10 games and has been good for us in recent games, fulfilling exactly the "it's not just about his goals" criteria that you mention.

Watt's chance may come at some point, but can we please let people earn caps instead of just handing them to anyone who had a decent game the weekend before the squad's named.

I was including a double Watt scored against Herenveen in a winter - tournament. Which I guess would still be classed as a friendly.

The fact of the matter is; when Watt starts games up front, he scores goals. Being on the bench, or not in the squad at all, slightly hinders his ability to wrack up a goals tally. He's only started around half of those 12 games you mentioned, by the way. I believe he also has 3 or 4 assists. But again, it ain't just his goals, otherwise Charlton fans wouldn't be singing his name.

I never said Naismith or Fletcher should be dropped from the squad. And, as I said, it could be valuable for them to get confidence boosting goals. But that it would also be beneficial for youngsters to get some goals to get them off the mark. Tough call to make.

I would have agreed with you that Watt shouldn't be called up a couple of weeks ago, but who are we gonna call? (I can't use that phrase without thinking of ghostbusters haha)

May isn't playing, Martin is injured, Russell is an attacking mid, Rhodes and McCormack weren't favoured by Strachan when they were playing far better in the past. That pretty much leaves you with Fletcher, Watt and Griffiths (plus Naismith and Russell)

[andyD]

So unless you want two strikers in the squad you need to come up with some alternatives.

Pretty sure i went thru the list fairly comprehensively a few posts ago. I don't want to really bore people by doing it again.

[er yir macaroon]

Pretty sure i went thru the list fairly comprehensively a few posts ago. I don't want to really bore people by doing it again.

well you slated a few players on a list.

[andyD]

I was including a double Watt scored against Herenveen in a winter - tournament. Which I guess would still be classed as a friendly.

The fact of the matter is; when Watt starts games up front, he scores goals. Being on the bench, or not in the squad at all, slightly hinders his ability to wrack up a goals tally. He's only started around half of those 12 games you mentioned, by the way. I believe he also has 3 or 4 assists. But again, it ain't just his goals, otherwise Charlton fans wouldn't be singing his name.

I never said Naismith or Fletcher should be dropped from the squad. And, as I said, it could be valuable for them to get confidence boosting goals. But that it would also be beneficial for youngsters to get some goals to get them off the mark. Tough call to make.

I would have agreed with you that Watt shouldn't be called up a couple of weeks ago, but who are we gonna call? (I can't use that phrase without thinking of ghostbusters haha)

May isn't playing, Martin is injured, Russell is an attacking mid, Rhodes and McCormack weren't favoured by Strachan when they were playing far better in the past. That pretty much leaves you with Fletcher, Watt and Griffiths (plus Naismith and Russell)

>> The fact of the matter is; when Watt starts games up front, he scores goals.

That quite clearly hyperbole. I'm not going to bother listing the games he's started up front this season and not scored, it's obvious to everyone that he doesn't score when he starts. Right?

>> Being on the bench, or not in the squad at all, slightly hinders his ability to wrack up a goals tally.

You think you're being a smartass here, but he's actually decent off the bench. Almost half his goals this season have been off the bench. He's scored in 5 games this season.. 2 of those he came off the bench.

>> He's only started around half of those 12 games you mentioned, by the way. I believe he also has 3 or 4 assists.

He has 1 assist in those 12 games for Charlton. You're getting a bit close to just making stuff up at this stage.

>> it ain't just his goals, otherwise Charlton fans wouldn't be singing his name.

Again.. Charlton fans singing your name is not ground for an international call up.

>> it could be valuable for them to get confidence boosting goals. But that it would also be beneficial for youngsters to get some goals to get them off the mark. Tough call to make.

Is it really tho? It should be based on who's earnt a call up and who hasn't, shouldn't it? McCormack, Griffiths and Rhodes have all done more, setting aside the injured Martin as well as Russell who I'd use off the wing as Derby usually do.

>>May isn't playing, Martin is injured, Russell is an attacking mid, Rhodes and McCormack weren't favoured by Strachan when they were playing far better in the past. That pretty much leaves you with Fletcher, Watt and Griffiths (plus Naismith and Russell)

Not sure I really follow that. There's a pecking order, for sure. Naismith, Fletcher and Martin have been the top 3 for a while now, with May and Russell the next in line. 4 of those 5 have been the choice for every game since Germany. We've had them available and that's why the likes of Griffiths and McCormack haven't come in. It's not that they've been discarded for ever and shall never play ever again, it's just we have better players and they've been available.

But ok, if we lost the first 5 strikers to injury I guess we could think about calling up Watt to sit on the bench.

[andyD]

well you slated a few players on a list.

We don't have a lot of world-beating strikers. That's the reality as far as I can see. We've got 2 genuinely good ones. We've got a few who are ok and/or have potential to be good.

If you disagree, I'm happy to discuss it. But suggesting I haven't given any input on the subject or said who i think should be in the squad is just inaccurate on your part.

[Caledonian Craig]

But andyD, just because Martin has been in the squad doesn't or shouldn't now automatically place him above others. Regardless of his club form which hasn't been brilliant of late anyway, he has had a number of chances for us of late and he has been far from adequate so what merits are there in persevering with such a player when others have not had a chance? None I'd say. That being the case you look to our other viable options and we are very thin on the ground for in form strikers. The strikers I would name in the squad (or attacking midfielders) would be Naismith, Fletcher, Russell, Griffiths (purely to give him another chance) and Watt (purely on his form in the past month) and offers a chance for Strachan to run a rule over him and see how he does. Not really anything that can be argued with there apart from perhaps arguing the case for Rhodes.

[Tartan blood]

>> The fact of the matter is; when Watt starts games up front, he scores goals.

That quite clearly hyperbole. I'm not going to bother listing the games he's started up front this season and not scored, it's obvious to everyone that he doesn't score when he starts. Right?

>> Being on the bench, or not in the squad at all, slightly hinders his ability to wrack up a goals tally.

You think you're being a smartass here, but he's actually decent off the bench. Almost half his goals this season have been off the bench. He's scored in 5 games this season.. 2 of those he came off the bench.

>> He's only started around half of those 12 games you mentioned, by the way. I believe he also has 3 or 4 assists.

He has 1 assist in those 12 games for Charlton. You're getting a bit close to just making stuff up at this stage.

>> it ain't just his goals, otherwise Charlton fans wouldn't be singing his name.

Again.. Charlton fans singing your name is not ground for an international call up.

>> it could be valuable for them to get confidence boosting goals. But that it would also be beneficial for youngsters to get some goals to get them off the mark. Tough call to make.

Is it really tho? It should be based on who's earnt a call up and who hasn't, shouldn't it? McCormack, Griffiths and Rhodes have all done more, setting aside the injured Martin as well as Russell who I'd use off the wing as Derby usually do.

>>May isn't playing, Martin is injured, Russell is an attacking mid, Rhodes and McCormack weren't favoured by Strachan when they were playing far better in the past. That pretty much leaves you with Fletcher, Watt and Griffiths (plus Naismith and Russell)

Not sure I really follow that. There's a pecking order, for sure. Naismith, Fletcher and Martin have been the top 3 for a while now, with May and Russell the next in line. 4 of those 5 have been the choice for every game since Germany. We've had them available and that's why the likes of Griffiths and McCormack haven't come in. It's not that they've been discarded for ever and shall never play ever again, it's just we have better players and they've been available.

But ok, if we lost the first 5 strikers to injury I guess we could think about calling up Watt to sit on the bench.

Firstly, woah! You're taking it a bit personally. I'm just having a friendly debate here.

With the assists stat, I was referring to a post I saw on the charlton forum. I think they may be including penalties he's won or maybe chances created. So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and agree it is 1 assist.

The fact that he scores from the bench as well as starting surely shows that he should be starting more games? I didn't mean he scores every game, and he certainly won't at a team like Charlton, but he is playing extremely well. If he has very good players around him then I think he'd score even more.

Our opinion of the boy is clearly miles apart, so no point arguing about it. For the record, I very much doubt Strachan will call up Watt. But I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be for these games. I personally wouldn't call him up if this was Germany or Poland we were playing, but NI or Gibraltar aren't going to phase him. So if he is in Strachan's long term plans, why the heck not?

Yes, there is a pecking order, but that order changes based on form. You don't pick squads based on loyalty. I'm 90% certain Griffiths will be in the next squad. Watt probably won't be. And, at the minute, May doesn't deserve to be (but I do rate him). McCormack, maybe. Rhodes, doubt it.

I wouldn't be surprised if Strachan just kept it to Fletcher, Naismith and Russell.