Chesney Hawkes TA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Not easy to judge Martin in a game where he came on for 20 minutes up front with the opposition completely dominant. As stupid as judging a player by his performance in a friendly. Anyone who thinks Jordan Rhodes is going to score goals consistently against decent international defences needs to make their way back to the hospital before the alarm is raised that they're missing. He is at his level in club football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 If we stick with 4 strikers per squad (previously 3), and the obvious first 2 being Naismith and Fletcher, then we are basically deciding who will be the 'back up' and 'the sub'. It's between Martin, McCormack, Rhodes and Griffiths (when playing) for that sub spot. Not much between them all in terms of quality. But I think we'd all be in agreement that they are not the long term solution. The 4th spot in the squad should be to try new guys; like Stevie May, Johhny Russell and Tony Watt. Not quite ready yet, but could potentially be the answer to our "goals problem". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Martin looked gubbed after 5 mins in Poland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 But I think we'd all be in agreement that they are not the long term solution. ". Erm no!!! Speak for yourself. I'll decide whether Rhodes is the long term solution or not once the poor bassturt has actually had a fair crack of the whip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IJM Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 If we stick with 4 strikers per squad (previously 3), and the obvious first 2 being Naismith and Fletcher, then we are basically deciding who will be the 'back up' and 'the sub'. It's between Martin, McCormack, Rhodes and Griffiths (when playing) for that sub spot. Not much between them all in terms of quality. But I think we'd all be in agreement that they are not the long term solution. The 4th spot in the squad should be to try new guys; like Stevie May, Johhny Russell and Tony Watt. Not quite ready yet, but could potentially be the answer to our "goals problem". How has McCormack been playing recently? (not a "trick question" - just wondering) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyD Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Is it worth mentioning that Rhodes has 1 goal in his last 7.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Is it worth mentioning that Rhodes has 1 goal in his last 7.. Only if you also mention that Fletcher has 1 in 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvIrnBru Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not saying he is the answer; just highlighting that he is scoring more this season (in Strachan's preferred system) than Rhodes - who seems to be a messiah to some. I don't know what you've seen of Stevie May, but whilst he does put in a helluva shift, he's not particularly fast. On Russell, he is fast, but he seems to drift in and out of the Derby starting 11, and as far as I'm aware he plays on the wing for them. I don't think that anyone has claimed him to be a messiah. What I think he would be is a handy option to have on the bench if we required to go for broke and place 2 up top....He should be in the squad in my opinion, and the fact that he is rated at £10m or so and not in the squad, says a lot about the quality of players (except central defence) that we have at our disposal! Long may it continue! Edited October 24, 2014 by WeLuvIrnBru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvIrnBru Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I also think the goals will come again soon for Rhodes. He has only struggled for 7 games or so....he is a quality finisher, better than May and Martin in my opinion, although I believe that both May and Martin are more suited to the lone striker role. But if we need to change things, and when we play Gibraltar, is variety not good for the squad...particularly off the bench. When we have 4-5 similar strikers good at that role. Surely we only require 2 'lone' strikers in the squad, 3 at most, as by the very definition there will only ever be one on at a time.....unless we have another option.....ala Rhodes.... Edited October 24, 2014 by WeLuvIrnBru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Not easy to judge Martin in a game where he came on for 20 minutes up front with the opposition completely dominant. As stupid as judging a player by his performance in a friendly. Anyone who thinks Jordan Rhodes is going to score goals consistently against decent international defences needs to make their way back to the hospital before the alarm is raised that they're missing. He is at his level in club football. Absolutely correct, on both points. Any criticism of Martin, against Poland, is very unfair, as he hardly got any touches on the ball because we basically didn't have it much in that time. I've said before, he bullies defences in the Championship (more so that Rhodes does) and scores goals with both feet (which Fletcher can't do, as his right is for standing on only !) and is not scared to put his head in where it hurts. I'm not saying he is the Messiah, but lets be fair to him and see what he can do in a game where we have plenty of the ball, before we pass judgement on him ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Erm no!!! Speak for yourself. I'll decide whether Rhodes is the long term solution or not once the poor bassturt has actually had a fair crack of the whip. I agree that he hasn't had the same opportunities that Fletcher or Naismith has but, other than his goals record, there is little else to get excited about. I've watched him plenty over the last couple of years and, to be honest, I completely agree with Strachan. If he was the focal point of the team and everyone was working together to create chances for him, then fair enough, he'd score goals. But he isn't good enough to justify an adjustment to the system. As I've said before, putting the ball in the net is not the only requirement of an international striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvIrnBru Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I agree that he hasn't had the same opportunities that Fletcher or Naismith has but, other than his goals record, there is little else to get excited about. I've watched him plenty over the last couple of years and, to be honest, I completely agree with Strachan. If he was the focal point of the team and everyone was working together to create chances for him, then fair enough, he'd score goals. But he isn't good enough to justify an adjustment to the system. As I've said before, putting the ball in the net is not the only requirement of an international striker. It seemed to work for ok for ally mccoist......I too have watched Rhodes on numerous occassions and with some of the comments in here you would think that all he ever does is stand on the penalty spot swinging his leg. There is more to his game than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Think he should be in the squad for when we need to switch a the 2 striker system. His instinct to be in the right area would work well with the way fletch plays and I could see the 2 of them having a great partnership. Totally agree that he is not the man for the lone striker role and that we have better options for that. Could be an idea playing with 2 strikers against Gibraltar as it could quite easily come down to goal difference at the end of the campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Does Ireland, Poland or Germany play with 1 upfront? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It seemed to work for ok for ally mccoist......I too have watched Rhodes on numerous occassions and with some of the comments in here you would think that all he ever does is stand on the penalty spot swinging his leg. There is more to his game than that.Don't get me wrong, he'd be in my squad,too. I would have him as the alternative from the bench. But I think Naismith and Fletcher bring more to the team and are, rightfully, in front of him. Good player to have available, though. I actually rate him higher than C.Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I would have no qualms about Rhodes being in a squad for matches when we need hatfull of goals but even then only as a squad member. Naismith and Fletcher are our top strikers at the moment with international and long top flight experience. Rhodes has yet to dip his toe in the big-time and this year his goals by his standards have dried up. Chris Martin has edged him out as he has scored more goals this year and slots in as a type of striker Gordon prefers. I am not going to criticise the wee man after the job he has done so if he feels Rhodes isn't quite squad material then that is good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 It seemed to work for ok for ally mccoist......I too have watched Rhodes on numerous occassions and with some of the comments in here you would think that all he ever does is stand on the penalty spot swinging his leg. There is more to his game than that. McCoist wasn't that great for Scotland. He was a good player, but not as good as Mo Johnston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvIrnBru Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 McCoist wasn't that great for Scotland. He was a good player, but not as good as Mo Johnston. No, he maybe wasn't. But what he did have (which I believe Rhodes also has) was a knack for being in the right place at the right time. He is our 5th top goalscorer ever......which is pretty good going for a player that was not that great! He did not really have a Hateley type provider for Scotland like he had for Rangers, but i believe that Fletcher could more than fill that role. What I am saying is, he is a great option off the bench to partner Fletcher against teams of similar level (or better) than us when chasing a game, or indeed when we are playing no hopers such as Gibraltar. He should be in the squad, for variety if nothing else - allowing us to alter our tactics if required. To have 4-5 lone strikers in the squad makes little sense to me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeLuvIrnBru Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Also he has scored 3 goals in 11 caps. Naismith has scored only one more and had 32 caps! And Fletcher, well his poor goalscoring form in the dark blue continues. Although I did think that he played well in the last 2 games - better than he has done previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 No, he maybe wasn't. But what he did have (which I believe Rhodes also has) was a knack for being in the right place at the right time. He is our 5th top goalscorer ever......which is pretty good going for a player that was not that great! He did not really have a Hateley type provider for Scotland like he had for Rangers, but i believe that Fletcher could more than fill that role. What I am saying is, he is a great option off the bench to partner Fletcher against teams of similar level (or better) than us when chasing a game, or indeed when we are playing no hopers such as Gibraltar. He should be in the squad, for variety if nothing else - allowing us to alter our tactics if required. To have 4-5 lone strikers in the squad makes little sense to me.... One key difference was McCoist (like Naismith and Fletcher) had/have long experience of playing at the top level in football whilst Rhodes has none whatsoever. He had the chance of a move to the EPL (I believe) last year and turned it down - very bad move. The simple fact is he is not the all-round striker that Strachan looks to play and with Gordon's great job he is doing I am not going to knock him for any team selection issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Also he has scored 3 goals in 11 caps. Naismith has scored only one more and had 32 caps! And Fletcher, well his poor goalscoring form in the dark blue continues. Although I did think that he played well in the last 2 games - better than he has done previously.Not to discredit any of Robbie Keane's or anyone else's goal tally, but a good few of their goals will have come in friendlies and against low seeded teams. Both Miller and McFadden would have been into the 20s had they had more opportunities to play against teams like Gibraltar. In the last decade it has been a trend to call off "injured" for friendlies. Add in the fact we have played fewer games due to not qualifying for tournaments. That's a lot of games that could have boosted individual goal tallys. I really hope we put out a strong front line against Gibraltar. A cheeky wee hat-trick from Fletcher and a double from Naismith will suddenly make their stats seem a bit better and give them the confidence to kick on. Edited October 26, 2014 by Tartan blood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hard to compare picking McCoist with Rhodes. The international game has changed hugely in the past two decades since Ally was in his prime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
girvanTA Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Does anyone know if Fletcher and Robertson`s injuries are serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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