exile Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/27/bomb-isis-west-learned-nothign-from-war-terror-defeat-muslim-world-equal-partner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yup, playing right into their hands. But bombs also get western governments re-elected and those governments usually can't see past their own self interest. France started bombing as a reaction to what happened in Paris and you can kind of understand that even if you don't agree with it. Cameron is going to jump on the bandwagon to make himself look strong and make some of his 'bomb seller' friends happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 How can he get away with bombing Isis when a year ago he was calling for bombing of one of the groups Isis are fighting against? Seems a bit 1984 to me. Far better just to arm the Kurds directly and let them get on with it - they've been doing a pretty good job of beating Isis up till now despite being extremely strapped for cash to buy weapons and ammo and to feed their huge contingent of Syrian refugees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 It all boils to the fact Cameron and his ilk still see themselves as big players on the international stage, when in reality, they're Stranraer in the Champions League. The sun set on the glorious Empire many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Cannae see any NATO country doing anything to help the Kurds so long as Turkey is involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Cannae see any NATO country doing anything to help the Kurds so long as Turkey is involved. Did the Turks not allow america use of their airports on one condition and that was they also targeted the PKK Edited November 27, 2015 by Robroysboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) If you destroy Isis it will just leave a space for another militant group to replace them. Repeat *not that removing Isis has be a priority but senseless bombing isn't the way to do it if history has taught us anything Edited November 27, 2015 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 It's not an individual group that they are fighting, it's an ideology. That ideology is fuelled by every western bomb dropped, who have got themselves into a position where the only option they have left is to try to bomb them off the face of the earth. The pro bombing brigade will no doubt get their way with a commons vote next week, but the long term prognosis is not good, I hate to even think about where we will be in another 10 years, with the speed things are spiraling out of control at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 JOHN NICOLSON M.P. @MrJohnNicolson 1m1 minute ago Interesting to hear that Tory ministers are going to phone Labour MPs to ask for their votes to bomb Syria. Wonder if they plan to phone us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zicoladud Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 f*kin bomb the oot them ar*eholes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Saw this map the other day. How the hell do you sort this mess out as a foreign power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 John McTernan just been on 5Live tearing into Corbyn,pretty vitriolic stuff from Blair's former advisor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) John McTernan just been on 5Live tearing into Corbyn,pretty vitriolic stuff from Blair's former advisor. The go to guy for the media to further undermine Corbyn Would they have a left winger on to criticise every decision if Kendall got the job? Unlikely Edited November 28, 2015 by ParisInAKilt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 It's not an individual group that they are fighting, it's an ideology. That ideology is fuelled by every western bomb dropped, who have got themselves into a position where the only option they have left is to try to bomb them off the face of the earth. The pro bombing brigade will no doubt get their way with a commons vote next week, but the long term prognosis is not good, I hate to even think about where we will be in another 10 years, with the speed things are spiraling out of control at the moment. Exactly. Saw this map the other day. How the hell do you sort this mess out as a foreign power? You don't not when you created it in the first place and want it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Rather than assuming the government want to do the right thing (defeat terrorism) maybe they know that this approach will keep us at "war" with the Middle East for the next 100 years. Wars are profitable and keep the general public scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) John McTernan just been on 5Live tearing into Corbyn,pretty vitriolic stuff from Blair's former advisor. Did he say "ISIS are a death cult who see us as pagans and prostitutes"? Heard him on Radio Scotland & C4 News yesterday, he must have said it half a dozen times. I'll give him this he's a better NuLabour comedian than Matt Forde... Edited November 28, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Interview in Göring's cell (3 January 1946) Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars. Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. Same rules apply. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The might of the 'super powers' line up to bomb everything in sight in Syria, and they can't find a wee scumbag on the run 5 minutes away from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Best recruitment campaign isys will have in years. Another Sept 11 and look at the mess we have made of Iraq, afghanistan and Libya. Hardly inspiration for another campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The might of the 'super powers' line up to bomb everything in sight in Syria, and they can't find a wee scumbag on the run 5 minutes away from them. True Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Tell people in America that they live in a democracy and have "choice" This is why 100 labour MPs will go against Corbyn and the media will call for him to resign. Mind you maybe these labour MPs are fdaft enough to think this war will work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) The ideology of ISIS developed over centuries before any western bombing, before 9/11, before Iraq. If you give them space and time to plot they will attack the West .i.e us, you, your family. Al Qaeda is a very diminished force due to it being hounded and its operatives attacked. Same thing needed for ISIS. Every day they throw homosexuals off roof tops, rape women from other faiths making them sex slaves, hack off limbs of people against them, murder and create fear to live in their utopian caliphate, plot and manipulate the weak to act as suicide bombers. They are pure evil and the only way to defeat them is to kill them. Muslim scholars need to battle the ideology which is long term. In the meantime a governments first rule is to protect its citizens and the UK government must do that. Edited November 28, 2015 by Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The ideology of ISIS developed over centuries before any western bombing, before 9/11, before Iraq. If you give them space and time to plot they will attack the West .i.e us, you, your family. Al Qaeda is a very diminished force due to it being hounded and its operatives attacked. Same thing needed for ISIS. Aye, so innocent families being bombed over there in the search for terrorists who they can't find is just one of those things then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 The ideology of ISIS developed over centuries before any western bombing, before 9/11, before Iraq. If you give them space and time to plot they will attack the West .i.e us, you, your family. Al Qaeda is a very diminished force due to it being hounded and its operatives attacked. Same thing needed for ISIS. Even if this is true, and I'm not convinced it is, then stop selling weapons to the east and aligning our selves with other countries who support the bad guys. Smarter people than me and you claim that the Iraq war destabilised the Iraq army, caused massive sectarian violence and segregation, which helped create Isis, further claims that the cia trained, armed and funded fighters who defected to Isis. This is the hpyocracy of the west Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Aye, so innocent families being bombed over there in the search for terrorists who they can't find is just one of those things then? You have no proof of that. It's not a Dresden type fire storm. It's targeted the best it can. Shall we send them a petition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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