exile Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 'More powers' are being reported as if they are already the 'Devo Max' that 'the majority of Scots want' - and that the rUK will be happy to give them away. I've also heard it said that these powers fall short of this 'Devo Max'. Can someone explain in a sentence or two how the current offer of 'more powers' differs from 'Devo Max'? At what point would those powers be put to the vote in Westminster? If they are real powers, why would the rUK would be happy to let them go? I know this has been discussed before on here but haven't seen arguments out there this week - both sides seem to be simply assuming that the powers are self-evidently adequate and deliverable, or self-evidently inadequate and undeliverable. A lot of people will just be 'waking up' to this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Whitfield Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 There aren't any more powers. This is the labour extra devo announced in March. LABOUR Not in government & no mandate. Brown can't announce a timetable for implementation when he is not in the government. The so called 'NEW' powers, the labour ones are different to the tories & lib dems. There's been no cross party discussions on these 'new' powers. Do you think the ruk are not going to have a say in this? "A Downing Street spokesman said of Mr Brown's announcement: "We welcome this Labour initiative and we are content with the proposed timetable". - A perfect get out clause for the tories when nothing happens. Devo max seems to mean different things to different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Personally I can't manage that Exile. There are no specifics to quote, only flowery empty promises that skirt around the edges and (Whatever they are) will never materialise based on previous form. They are shitting themselves with good reason - Their antics today prove that. I hope and pray enough see through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 A reminder of the various proposals: https://twitter.com/reformscotland/status/509605554298179584 None of them even come close to DevoMax which is somewhere between DevoPlus and independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peever1745 Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Why has this anouncement been allowed with in the 28 day period prior to the vote? This has broken the Edinburgh agreement.Lets be honest here they are blowing smoke up our arse and lets face it these three parties counld nae agree on the colour of shite.This proposal could be blown apart if the Tories win the next election and invite UKIP to power share.Farage has not been consulted on any of this and most likely would want powers removed rather than added.Brown yet again has brought his daughters death into this after previously stating he would never bring her into any politica argument.He and his parcel of rogues are in melt down and will say anything to keep Scotlands wealth in London and their arses firmly planted in Westminster. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Whitfield Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Why has this anouncement been allowed with in the 28 day period prior to the vote? Probably why Brown is announcing it and the tories are saying "yeah, cool". Only applies to governments and labour ain't the government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Devo Max is full fiscal autonomy. None of the options are Devo Max yet this term is being used to describe them as such. Westminster has had 2 years to come up with a joint agreed proposal that would have guaranteed more powers. They didn't because they don't want more devolved powers and thought a No vote was a stick-on so they wouldn't have to. They have milked their three separate proposals for all they are worth by siigning various bits of paper agreeing to them but in the end of the day they are not in any manifesto and haven't been near parliament. If the No Campaign had wanted to be positive they would have recognised how many people are unhappy with the current situation and instead of focusing on what they are trying to make us think we would lose they should have told us how things would improve by setting out the changes they werer going to make to address the issues the people are unhappy with. They however don't want things to change, they are happy with the current arrangement and only now are offering things because that the the least worst option for them. People should also consider things like what if there is a leadership change? New people could just say that they didn't agree to anything and walk away completely. Edited September 10, 2014 by Lamia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 This latest "offer" is nothing more than a re-launch of the previous "offer". There are actually three different offers and the unionist parties can't agree on them. All they are now offering is to implement some meetings to talk about their offers in a given timescale. It is what is known as kicking the issue into the long grass. DO NOT TRUST THEM. They will get away with as little as possible. If they really wanted to give us more, we would have control of VAT, oil revenues, NI etc, the lot. The Scotland bill means some control of tax but in effect less budget due to changes to the Barnett formula. If you want more powers you can get them by voting Yes. You will also get a seat at the UN, and at the EU top table, and you will get rid of nukes. Control of landfill tax versus an independent nation. Bit of a no-brainer really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 It doesn't break the Edinburgh agreement as they are not offering us anything new. In fact they are still not offering anything at all. These so called "new powers" are not powers at all they are just new responsibilities. They are simply a millstone round the neck of the Scottish Government and they come with a reduction in the block grant. More responsibility + less money = Less power. http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-list-of-nothing/ http://wingsoverscotland.com/joining-the-dots/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Just saw this thread. The powers are all wind and pish. William Hague outlines that the "new powers" are a load of pish and purely speculation. From Hansard (the document of the Houses of Parliament) Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): Since 2012, my right hon. Friend and I have been supporting the policy of the Government not to offer so-called devo-max as a consolation prize in the event of a no vote in the Scottish referendum. If this is no longer the policy of the Government, when and why did it change, and what opportunity has there been for this House to express its view? Mr Hague: It has been the policy of the Government for some time to be open to further devolutionI gave examples of what we have done in Wales, for instance, during the lifetime of this Government. The statements by the party leaders made on this in the last few days are statements by party leaders in a campaignnot a statement of Government policy today, but a statement of commitment from the three main political parties, akin to statements by party leaders in a general election campaign of what they intend to do afterwards. It is on that basis that they have made those statements. Have Auntie Beeb reported that? J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 I read today that Devo Max meant everything except defence and foreign affairs devolved. If so, that means the current 'more powers' fall short by some way. Also, read in some newspaper column, that the current offer would mean less money flowing north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Thanks for the answers. So it's not new, it's less than Devo Max and it could mean less money for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 David Cameron faces a backlash from Tory MPs who say Scotland must not be handed new powers without London and the English regions getting a settlement of their own. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-demand-greater-powers-for-london-and-england-if-devomax-goes-ahead-9726179.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Dave's stunt double on PMQ's from Wednesday confirming what we all know already........ https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gFPoQmT0B2U Fukin tossers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 13, 2014 Author Share Posted September 13, 2014 BBC spelling it out now... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29141474 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Whitfield Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 JOHN NICOLSON @MrJohnNicolson 1h Christopher Chope MP on Radio 4 now promising that Tory back benchers will block any new powers for Scotland if we vote No. #indyref Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jie Bie Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Here's another nail in the No campaign's coffin: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/boris-johnson-vows-to-resist-scots-tax-devolution-1-3505113 For those of you who have missed it, Boris has just been selected to run as MP for the safe Tory seat of Uxbridge & South Ruislip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Sunday Times reporting the fallout in event of a no vote. Tory MPs warning it would be a 'slow motion bloodbath' If Scots had full tax raising powers, Tories could move to disallow Scots MPs to vote on financial / tax matters in England. This would mean Labour would have difficulty getting their tax policies through. "Bye by [to Ed] Balls' first budget" http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/ScottishReferendum/article1459005.ece What chances of more powers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Whitfield Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Sunday Times reporting the fallout in event of a no vote. Tory MPs warning it would be a 'slow motion bloodbath' If Scots had full tax raising powers, Tories could move to disallow Scots MPs to vote on financial / tax matters in England. This would mean Labour would have difficulty getting their tax policies through. "Bye by [to Ed] Balls' first budget" http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/ScottishReferendum/article1459005.ece What chances of more powers? Labour won't form the next ruk govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Labour won't form the next ruk govt. But they say they will. As long as they believe they will, their MPs will fight tooth and nail to prevent powers heading to Scotland if that meant removing power of Scots MPs to help deliver a Labour programme. And as long as each Westminster party believes it could win power, it will need to placate its English and Welsh MPs... making the reality of 'more powers' a shaky proposition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark frae Crieff Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 MOre Powers they would be better wi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 Checked out the timescale of More Powers in one of the papers. It spells out the dates of various stages through to a draft bill.... but there is no time set on when those powers (whatever they'd be) would be delivered. They would simply dissolve into the May Gen Election campaign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDange Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 This is the "More Powers" in a nutshell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 15, 2014 Author Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) This is the "More Powers" in a nutshell... Nicky Campbell keeps saying there will be more powers. The BBC have bought the propaganda. Edited September 15, 2014 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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