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Ifs buts and maybes. Like I said it will be damaging for both initially but I'd prefer to take my chances as an independent country that isn't in a currency union and maybe it will force the government down here to invest in the manufacturing industry who knows. I still think we will be fine. Don't worry about us, if and when it all goes Pete tong down here you can all have a good laugh ;-)

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Well Nobby, when all of Scotlands revenue stops going into Westminster Coffers. I would say we are off to a better start than the restof uk. And you can sit back and watch Westminster freeload to London and the South east a good whack of your money. But keep a stiff upper lip , they will promise you the earth to shut up and leave them be. Might even offer you some tiny devolved powers as a wee sweetener And swear undying love for you. Now that can't be bad can it?.

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Fair do's like i said if you do that in all likliehood you will upset your new neighbours and it probably wont go down to well with markets who the Scottish govt will have to borrow from. I think that would ultimately be very bad for Scotland, you dont, we shall agree to disagree. It will be interesting to see who was right !!

why ? SG have no debt - Treasury already confirmed Ruk own the debt

markets will simply look at a country with balance of payments surplus and natural resources - and we will get a more than fair rate

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Ifs buts and maybes. Like I said it will be damaging for both initially but I'd prefer to take my chances as an independent country that isn't in a currency union and maybe it will force the government down here to invest in the manufacturing industry who knows. I still think we will be fine. Don't worry about us, if and when it all goes Pete tong down here you can all have a good laugh ;-)

Its not about that as after a Yes vote a strong Scotland assists a strong rUK and visa versa. I Agree that it will make UK markets / currency a tad volatile for a short amount of time. However, it will be Westminster that is to blame for that with their more powers, tory backbench pledge to vote against powers, no currency union (although I suspect a change of tune after a Yes vote), warnings, calling in favours from rich friends... They have created more uncertainty than any other stakeholder in this whole campaign.

They had two years to have cross party debates in Westminster regarding more powers, currency union etc... They haven't and are now in outright panic!

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Ifs buts and maybes. Like I said it will be damaging for both initially but I'd prefer to take my chances as an independent country that isn't in a currency union and maybe it will force the government down here to invest in the manufacturing industry who knows. I still think we will be fine. Don't worry about us, if and when it all goes Pete tong down here you can all have a good laugh ;-)

You are currently our biggest trading partner.it's never a good thing for a close neighbour to be more unstable or have detrimental economic issues.The same applies as WE are England's second biggest trading partner .So it does make sense for England to support a strong independent Scotland.Hence currency union.The only ones i'l be laughing at are the lying corrupt bast@rds who pose as politicians and media reporters whose careers have come to an end.Most of them are Scots!

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You are currently our biggest trading partner.it's never a good thing for a close neighbour to be more unstable or have detrimental economic issues.The same applies as WE are England's second biggest trading partner .So it does make sense for England to support a strong independent Scotland.Hence currency union.The only ones i'l be laughing at are the lying corrupt bast@rds who pose as politicians and media reporters whose careers have come to an end.Most of them are Scots!

We account for 70% of your exports; you account for 10% of ours. You need us (to have a strong economy) far more than we need you.

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We account for 70% of your exports; you account for 10% of ours. You need us (to have a strong economy) far more than we need you.

See, we're helping our neighbours pay of that colossal debt already.

Mind you, we can afford to given we won't have any. ;)

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We account for 70% of your exports; you account for 10% of ours. You need us (to have a strong economy) far more than we need you.

Difficult to quantify in terms of exports but around 40% to 10% is more accurate.International exports will be expected to grow considerably as Scotland continues to develop her massive "brand image" by her own government who plan to raise Scotland's international profile considerably Some economists are claiming that whisky production alone is set to rise between 25 and 50 % in the next 8 years mostly to Brazil India and China.The desire and financial will to develop increasing markets has to increase in the next two decades as we would not want our economy threatened if RUK cannot pay off its debts with our largest export market in a position of instability.
Exports

00442841-385.gif

International Exports: The total value of international exports from Scotland in 2012 (excluding oil and gas) is estimated at £26.0 billion, of which £15.4 billion was from the manufacturing sector and £8.7 billion from the services sector

Industry Results: The top 5 exporting industries in 2011 were food & beverages (£4.7 billion); manufacture of coke, refined petroleum and chemical products (£4.1 billion); legal, accountancy, management, architecture, engineering, technical testing and analysis activities (£1.7 billion); wholesale retail trade, repair of motor vehicles & motorcycles (£1.7 billion); financial and insurance activities (£1.4 billion).

Export Destinations: The top five export destinations in 2012 were the USA, Netherlands, France, Germany, and Norway.

But who would a trade barrier hurt?

We are often told that Scotland exports a lot to the rest of the UK (rUK) and it does, taking an average of the variety of estimates of exports and imports between Scotland and rUK, we can see that Scotland exports around £47.5 billion of goods and services a year. BUT (that’s a big but) HM Treasury’s using experimental data to estimates that rUK exported £49 billion in goods and services to Scotland in 2011.

Trade barriers hurt the UK as much as Scotland! Not only do the No Campaign’s London focussed politicians need to wonder how they will get re-elected when English companies lose nearly £4bn a month in orders but much of Scotland exports to the rUK are energy based with the rUK purchasing 3/4 of our gas and at least 25% of our electricity. So the rUK would have a massive energy deficit with up to 35% of its long term energy requirement (and a higher % of its renewable energy requirement) either unmet (leading to electricity rationing in England) or subject to self imposed trade barriers.

In essence, if you are thinking of voting No because you believe that the current batch of Westminster unionist politicians are capable of committing economic and political suicide, then you should perhaps also be asking yourself why you are planning on voting no and leaving politicians that are that incompetent in charge of Scotland? Either they are misleading us or they are incompetent!

Conclusion

So, according to the No campaign, other countries who are already independent can trade with the UK without borders (or we will emphasise military might and threaten to sue them). Independently governed countries within the British Isles can have no passport patrols, no trade barriers and no big wire fence with sniper towers and border patrols but if Scotland decides to govern itself and stop subsidising the UK with our 9.9% of UK taxes generated from 8.4% of the UK population then we will have to queue at the border.

Bizarre to say the least, especially as exports to Scotland from the rest of the UK are vital to the rUK economy and trade barriers would sink the newly independent rUK economy. The rest of the UK would suffer an energy deficit if it wasn’t able to freely purchase energy from Scotland so if they were to implement trade barriers and border controls that they themselves claim would be illegal under EU law there would be the risk of blackouts in England’s major cities!

Exports not only depend on percentage value,they depend on the importance of a particular commodity. For example Scotland currently exports 30% of its electricity to England(In theory for nothing or a handout back).This can be charged at a competitive rate in the future . At present without it you may find it difficult to switch your computer on at peak times.A pretty good negotiating tool for currency union i would have thought.i would say England is going to need Scotland as a reliable trading partner a bit more than she thinks ,but lets face it the English are only just waking up to this fact in the last few weeks.Our strength is not just our people but our natural resources ,which we can sell anywhere.It's just been easier to give our exports away to England .
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Difficult to quantify in terms of exports but around 40% to 10% is more accurate.International exports will be expected to grow considerably as Scotland continues to develop her massive "brand image" by her own government who plan to raise Scotland's international profile considerably Some economists are claiming that whisky production alone is set to rise between 25 and 50 % in the next 8 years mostly to Brazil India and China.The desire and financial will to develop increasing markets has to increase in the next two decades as we would not want our economy threatened if RUK cannot pay off its debts with our largest export market in a position of instability.
Exports

00442841-385.gif

International Exports: The total value of international exports from Scotland in 2012 (excluding oil and gas) is estimated at £26.0 billion, of which £15.4 billion was from the manufacturing sector and £8.7 billion from the services sector

Industry Results: The top 5 exporting industries in 2011 were food & beverages (£4.7 billion); manufacture of coke, refined petroleum and chemical products (£4.1 billion); legal, accountancy, management, architecture, engineering, technical testing and analysis activities (£1.7 billion); wholesale retail trade, repair of motor vehicles & motorcycles (£1.7 billion); financial and insurance activities (£1.4 billion).

Export Destinations: The top five export destinations in 2012 were the USA, Netherlands, France, Germany, and Norway.

But who would a trade barrier hurt?

We are often told that Scotland exports a lot to the rest of the UK (rUK) and it does, taking an average of the variety of estimates of exports and imports between Scotland and rUK, we can see that Scotland exports around £47.5 billion of goods and services a year. BUT (that’s a big but) HM Treasury’s using experimental data to estimates that rUK exported £49 billion in goods and services to Scotland in 2011.

Trade barriers hurt the UK as much as Scotland! Not only do the No Campaign’s London focussed politicians need to wonder how they will get re-elected when English companies lose nearly £4bn a month in orders but much of Scotland exports to the rUK are energy based with the rUK purchasing 3/4 of our gas and at least 25% of our electricity. So the rUK would have a massive energy deficit with up to 35% of its long term energy requirement (and a higher % of its renewable energy requirement) either unmet (leading to electricity rationing in England) or subject to self imposed trade barriers.

In essence, if you are thinking of voting No because you believe that the current batch of Westminster unionist politicians are capable of committing economic and political suicide, then you should perhaps also be asking yourself why you are planning on voting no and leaving politicians that are that incompetent in charge of Scotland? Either they are misleading us or they are incompetent!

Conclusion

So, according to the No campaign, other countries who are already independent can trade with the UK without borders (or we will emphasise military might and threaten to sue them). Independently governed countries within the British Isles can have no passport patrols, no trade barriers and no big wire fence with sniper towers and border patrols but if Scotland decides to govern itself and stop subsidising the UK with our 9.9% of UK taxes generated from 8.4% of the UK population then we will have to queue at the border.

Bizarre to say the least, especially as exports to Scotland from the rest of the UK are vital to the rUK economy and trade barriers would sink the newly independent rUK economy. The rest of the UK would suffer an energy deficit if it wasn’t able to freely purchase energy from Scotland so if they were to implement trade barriers and border controls that they themselves claim would be illegal under EU law there would be the risk of blackouts in England’s major cities!

Exports not only depend on percentage value,they depend on the importance of a particular commodity. For example Scotland currently exports 30% of its electricity to England(In theory for nothing or a handout back).This can be charged at a competitive rate in the future . At present without it you may find it difficult to switch your computer on at peak times.A pretty good negotiating tool for currency union i would have thought.i would say England is going to need Scotland as a reliable trading partner a bit more than she thinks ,but lets face it the English are only just waking up to this fact in the last few weeks.Our strength is not just our people but our natural resources ,which we can sell anywhere.It's just been easier to give our exports away to England .

The Scottish Government web page which you took that graph and other information off makes it quite clear: the value of Scottish international exports in 2012 was £26.0 billion; exports to the rest of the UK (excluding oil and gas!) were £47.6 billion. That makes a figure of 64% (not 70%, I'll grant).

From the same web page, it states that £25.3 billion of exports to the rUK were services - almost the same as all Scottish international exports combined. Scotland is a services-dominated economy, and the sale of those services to the rUK is vital to Scottish economic health - much, much more important than international sales of whisky. It's not glamorous, or iconic, but it is what it is.

The point in your article about rUK exporting slightly more to Scotland in absolute terms is completely disingenuous. The importance of £47 billion to the Scottish economy is magnitudes higher than £49 billion is to the rUK economy. The fact that rUK purchases the vast majority of Scottish energy is a weakness for Scotland, not a strength. You are utterly dependent on us, and the health of the rUK economy, and will be for the forseeable future.

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The fact that rUK purchases the vast majority of Scottish energy is a weakness for Scotland, not a strength. You are utterly dependent on us, and the health of the rUK economy, and will be for the forseeable future.

How can that be perceived as a weakness ? .The RUK does not purchase Scotland's energy .It is given Scotland's energy.We all know Scotland's resources in potential energy production compared to the whole European continent. Scotland will be a major supplier of energy to the European market.Energy that we can sell and use the profits to invest in different markets.

And by your way of thinking oil must be a burden to us as well. We've heard all that shite before.Utterly dependent on us. Sounds like you are some sort of relic of the empire and all the grateful natives would still be living in mud huts if it wasn't for the British. .Quite incredible to think think that after all you must have learned from this board you still come away with blatant racism .2 days to go and you almost came out with your dignity intact.Looks like you've gone down with your union

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The fact that rUK purchases the vast majority of Scottish energy is a weakness for Scotland, not a strength. You are utterly dependent on us, and the health of the rUK economy, and will be for the forseeable future.

How can that be perceived as a weakness ? .The RUK does not purchase Scotland's energy .It is given Scotland's energy.We all know Scotland's resources in potential energy production compared to the whole European continent. Scotland will be a major supplier of energy to the European market.Energy that we can sell and use the profits to invest in different markets.

And by your way of thinking oil must be a burden to us as well. We've heard all that shite before.Utterly dependent on us. Sounds like you are some sort of relic of the empire and all the grateful natives would still be living in mud huts if it wasn't for the British. .Quite incredible to think think that after all you must have learned from this board you still come away with blatant racism .2 days to go and you almost came out with your dignity intact.Looks like you've gone down with your union

1. If one customer makes up 65â„… of your sales, you are vulnerable to something bad happening to that customer. That is why Scotland is utterly dependent on rUK having a good economy. Nothing imperialistic about that.

2. Services are more important to the Scottish economy than everything else. Oil and gas are a bonus, naturally (though I believe we will get most of the gas).

3. You're not going to shut me up with ridiculous 'racist' or 'beloved Union' chat. I have never argued in favour of the UK. I just try and provide an English perspective. FTR, its from reading this board that I've been telling anyone who I discuss it with that Scotland is much closer to a Yes vote than most people in England think, and that even if there's a No vote quite fundamental change is coming in one form or another. Have you learnt anything from the board? About EU law, maybe?

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Been trying to explain to my workmates here in England why we want Indy. The best/easiest way is to say if you had a chance to get rid of the Westminster elitist establishment would you take it. This is it in its most basic simplest form. When thy hear that most of them have turned round and said in that case good luck to you hope you do it. I then go on to explane that down the line it could have bigger impacts down here as well. If we vote yes and it starts working for us the lower middle and working classes down here are going to start asking why they are not having it as good. It's then that you will see the elitist establishment crumble and a fairer system emerge. You could see the thought process working on there faces as they start to understand that it could happen

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Been trying to explain to my workmates here in England why we want Indy. The best/easiest way is to say if you had a chance to get rid of the Westminster elitist establishment would you take it. This is it in its most basic simplest form. When thy hear that most of them have turned round and said in that case good luck to you hope you do it. I then go on to explane that down the line it could have bigger impacts down here as well. If we vote yes and it starts working for us the lower middle and working classes down here are going to start asking why they are not having it as good. It's then that you will see the elitist establishment crumble and a fairer system emerge. You could see the thought process working on there faces as they start to understand that it could happen

That's the crux of it for me.

Scotland's often been a 2nd class citizen to a Westminister clique (as are Wales and many other parts of the British Isles too).

Old Labour used to be an occasion but limited lifeboat for Scotland, but they pulled the plug now too so what's left ?

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