92,000 Snp Members

[Orraloon]

I wonder how it would work out if the SG just refused to consider private bids for NHS contracts. Those private companies could sue the government but it would have to be the UK government that they sued? Maybe? That could turn out to be quite an interesting constitutional stushy.

[giblet]

those erses at 38 degrees were trying to drum up some noise in this. The stench of labour is all about them the way their petition suddenly became Gordon Browns petition and they were happy to mention him when they were ready to deliver it to Downing Street.

[Scunnered]

Well aye, Murphy is a sleekit wee

Of course I see the coalition are all for it, but I also see that the SG aren't all opposed, just on the NHS. It would be daft of Murphy to draw attention to a matter affecting the NHS which is out of the SG's hands. I reckon it's merely calling for Nic to declare a stance of complete opposition which she won't do.

[stocky]

Well aye, Murphy is a sleekit wee bunny rabbit

Of course I see the coalition are all for it, but I also see that the SG aren't all opposed, just on the NHS. It would be daft of Murphy to draw attention to a matter affecting the NHS which is out of the SG's hands. I reckon it's merely calling for Nic to declare a stance of complete opposition which she won't do.

I don't think any one is in complete opposition I can see some good in ot personally, the Ferry service in Scotland would benefit from some competition methinx.

I also think Labour have hi jacked this petition....

re suing the govt.....It would be interesting, but the discussions I have heard is that it will be the Scottish Govt that will have to defend their policy in Court, similar to the min price for Drinks appeal at the mo,

aye Murphy is a sleekit wee khunt.. that needs to be repeated..

[mariokempes56]

aye Murphy is a sleekit wee khunt.. that needs to be repeated..

Happy to help.

[Scunnered]

Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I still don't trust the SNP the length of my cock when it comes to business, and to a slightly lesser extent services.

[ShedTA]

Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I still don't trust the SNP the length of my cock when it comes to business, and to a slightly lesser extent services.

Who do you trust? Labour? Tories?

[Flure]

Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I still don't trust the SNP the length of my cock when it comes to business, and to a slightly lesser extent services.

How has what policies they have implemented been to the detriment of the people of Scotland?

[kps022000]

Got my membership card through this morning.

[Scunnered]

Who do you trust? Labour? Tories?

No.

How has what policies they have implemented been to the detriment of the people of Scotland?

I've said before, within the confines of Holyrood they're largely harmless, however:

1. In the event of independence they'd have reduced corporation tax, they'll still seek to do so through means of devolution.

2. As I've said, their draft budget has a significant cut in social spending and significant corporate handouts.

3. In the budget Swinney mentions reforming public services with worrying terminology.

4. From lovely Nicolas speech, “My job, as First Minister, will be to champion the interests of Scottish business at home and around the globe”.

Do you as a member believe that the SNP have the interest of the working class in mind? And if you utter "broad church" I'll make you swallow your membership card

[Dave78]

those erses at 38 degrees were trying to drum up some noise in this. The stench of labour is all about them the way their petition suddenly became Gordon Browns petition and they were happy to mention him when they were ready to deliver it to Downing Street.

I got the same 38 degrees email, but i'm not sure how as i don't remember signing up to anything. Who are they?

1. In the event of independence they'd have reduced corporation tax, they'll still seek to do so through means of devolution.

I live in Dublin and see the benefits of their low corporation tax every day on the tram (it's full of folk from all over the world working in the HQ's of the American multinationals. Google, Paypal, Twitter, Intel etc etc etc.)

Sure, these corporate behemoths might not pay much tax, but the jobs they create are extremely high value, and their presence alone creates lots of local startups. Dublin has gone from a backwater captial in an agricultural country to a major global city in regards to the IT industry, all thanks to the low corporation tax.

Does it not make sense for Scotland to siphon some of this good stuff away from London via slightly lower taxes?

2. As I've said, their draft budget has a significant cut in social spending and significant corporate handouts.

Genuine question - are you sure the business tax cuts are to corporations, and not smaller/local businesses?

4. From lovely Nicolas speech, My job, as First Minister, will be to champion the interests of Scottish business at home and around the globe.

Do you as a member believe that the SNP have the interest of the working class in mind? And if you utter "broad church" I'll make you swallow your membership card

As part-owner of a small Scottish IT company, i like what Nicola is saying. I'm in the broad church though

[Scunnered]

I live in Dublin and see the benefits of their low corporation tax every day on the tram (it's full of folk from all over the world working in the HQ's of the American multinationals. Google, Paypal, Twitter, Intel etc etc etc.)Sure, these corporate behemoths might not pay much tax, but the jobs they create are extremely high value, and their presence alone creates lots of local startups. Dublin has gone from a backwater captial in an agricultural country to a major global city in regards to the IT industry, all thanks to the low corporation tax.Does it not make sense for Scotland to siphon some of this good stuff away from London via slightly lower taxes? Genuine question - are you sure the business tax cuts are to corporations, and not smaller/local businesses? As part-owner of a small Scottish IT company, i like what Nicola is saying. I'm in the broad church though

Outside of what I've heard from TU reps I know very little about Ireland, so you'll know better than me. But what I do hear often is that it's not easy on the poor, with 1 in 2 relying on the state in one form or another.

I assume the tax relief will be for small/medium companies, but you can't say you'll tackle inequality and then cut social spending to fund relief for companies of any size. In my humble opinion.

Some would say its a very 'conservative' budget being prepared.

[Dave78]

Outside of what I've heard from TU reps I know very little about Ireland, so you'll know better than me. But what I do hear often is that it's not easy on the poor, with 1 in 2 relying on the state in one form or another.

It's brutal on the poor. I'd much rather be poor in Scotland than Ireland.

Since the IMF/EU bailout in 2008 we've had tax after tax. There was 200,000 folk out on the streets about a month or so ago protesting the new water charge (basically everyone's water usage is going to be monitored and charged for via a new tax - even though Irish folk have already been paying for it via general taxation since the creation of the state). It also opens up our water to being privatised in the future, which is the part i'm most concerned about.

I assume the tax relief will be for small/medium companies, but you can't say you'll tackle inequality and then cut social spending to fund relief for companies of any size. In my humble opinion.

I see your point, and i don't necessarily disagree. But it depends on what the business tax cut actually does. Will it put more money in the pockets of the bosses, thereby making the rich richer, or will it encourage them to employ more folk - lifting them out of poverty?

[Lamia]

4. From lovely Nicolas speech, “My job, as First Minister, will be to champion the interests of Scottish business at home and around the globe”.

Don't see what is wrong with that to be honest

[Scunnered]

I see your point, and i don't necessarily disagree. But it depends on what the business tax cut actually does. Will it put more money in the pockets of the bosses, thereby making the rich richer, or will it encourage them to employ more folk - lifting them out of poverty?

It never does. Corp tax cuts are nothing more than gifts to shareholders.

Don't see what is wrong with that to be honest

In it's self there's not much wrong. But on the whole it's looking like the interest of Scottish business will come before the interest of the people.

[thorbotnic]

I got the same 38 degrees email, but i'm not sure how as i don't remember signing up to anything. Who are they?

I live in Dublin and see the benefits of their low corporation tax every day on the tram (it's full of folk from all over the world working in the HQ's of the American multinationals. Google, Paypal, Twitter, Intel etc etc etc.)

Sure, these corporate behemoths might not pay much tax, but the jobs they create are extremely high value, and their presence alone creates lots of local startups. Dublin has gone from a backwater captial in an agricultural country to a major global city in regards to the IT industry, all thanks to the low corporation tax.

Does it not make sense for Scotland to siphon some of this good stuff away from London via slightly lower taxes?

Genuine question - are you sure the business tax cuts are to corporations, and not smaller/local businesses?

As part-owner of a small Scottish IT company, i like what Nicola is saying. I'm in the broad church though

The problem with this is that it creates a race to the bottom, where each country / jurisdiction seeks to attract investment not by making structural changes and investments (e.g. by educating its workforce in particular skills, building ultrafast internet etc) but by cutting taxes - something every country can do with more-or-less the same ease. It doesn't create a genuine source of competitive advantage - it just drives down corporation tax everywhere in the long run.

[Toepoke]

Heard a feature on the radio about Houston in Texas a few months back, where they've cut corporation tax radically (I think it might even be zero). Consequently there's loads of employment but public services are stretched to breaking point...

[Dave78]

It never does. Corp tax cuts are nothing more than gifts to shareholders.

But you said earlier that these SNP tax cuts will probably be for SME's, not the faceless foreign shareholders of the huge corporations.

The problem with this is that it creates a race to the bottom, where each country / jurisdiction seeks to attract investment not by making structural changes and investments (e.g. by educating its workforce in particular skills, building ultrafast internet etc) but by cutting taxes - something every country can do with more-or-less the same ease. It doesn't create a genuine source of competitive advantage - it just drives down corporation tax everywhere in the long run.

Well, Ireland seems to have managed it.

[FuNsTeR]

Scunnered's idea of a economy is everything is run by the state or works for the council .... if a country is to succeed it needs growth and the model you want exists in oil rich Venezuela .... which has seen it's economy decimated in 10 years through the policies you want ... the bulk of the jobs created are created by private companies our economy needs billions in investment if it is to continue to compete against other economies around the globe by lowering taxes creates a better market to invest in ie lower corporation/business tax, lower petrol/diesel tax, lower electricity and gas prices to help our industry to make them more competitive but at a cost of paying a living wage instead of a minimum wage and make it a point if a company wants to do business in Scotland it has to pay taxes in Scotland .... the UK's idea of economy is borrow money to help pay the debt ... Snp's policy is to borrow money to INVEST in our economy

Edited November 26, 2014 by FuNsTeR

[Scunnered]

But you said earlier that these SNP tax cuts will probably be for SME's, not the faceless foreign shareholders of the huge corporations.

Ok, gifts to shareholders and business owners.

[Scunnered]

Scunnered's idea of a economy is everything is run by the state or works for the council ...

I'm not a communist.

I do however believe that governments first priority should be the people... Removing public spending to provide relief for the private sector is not progressive, or even Centre Left as many SNP members claim them to be.

[FuNsTeR]

I'm not a communist.

I do however believe that governments first priority should be the people... Removing public spending to provide relief for the private sector is not progressive, or even Centre Left as many SNP members claim them to be.

the first priority is to the people ie creating jobs reduces welfare costs thus providing more money to provide services and invest in our economy it is about getting a balance you can't have it lopsided ... if you don't create jobs and invest in the economy ... the economy will shrink meaning less money to invest in social programmes .... Labour wants to do away with council tax freezes, they want to do away with free prescriptions and free tuition fees and when they were last in power they wanted to get rid of half the A&Es around the country .... so I would say the Snp are away far more socialist than Scottish Labour

btw my great grandfather was a communist

[thorbotnic]

Well, Ireland seems to have managed it.

They've got a short-term bump, sure, but there's no sustainable advantage in being low-cost if you don't have a genuine basis for being cheaper than your competitors (lower wage costs, better distribution etc). Because everyone else can (and will) ape it with the stroke of a pen.

[Dave78]

Ok, gifts to shareholders and business owners.

It's just too simplistic to say giving a tax cut to businesses means all of the money will be pocketed by the owners/shareholders.

If the government game my company a £10k gift tomorrow, i know for a fact it would be reinvested in the company (i.e. spent on making our product better - partially through employing people/buying services to improve it (creating jobs!)), as that's what it needs to stay competitive.

I imagine the same would be true for most SME's.

[scotlad]

It's brutal on the poor. I'd much rather be poor in Scotland than Ireland.

Since the IMF/EU bailout in 2008 we've had tax after tax. There was 200,000 folk out on the streets about a month or so ago protesting the new water charge (basically everyone's water usage is going to be monitored and charged for via a new tax - even though Irish folk have already been paying for it via general taxation since the creation of the state). It also opens up our water to being privatised in the future, which is the part i'm most concerned about.

I see your point, and i don't necessarily disagree. But it depends on what the business tax cut actually does. Will it put more money in the pockets of the bosses, thereby making the rich richer, or will it encourage them to employ more folk - lifting them out of poverty?

In my view, it should part of a wider range of measures. For instance, I think the minimum wage should be higher to ensure that work really does pay. People shouldn't have to rely on in-work benefits to supplement the income they go out and graft for; our wages should be at a level where they are able to support us. However, I can see how an increase in the minimum wage might place a strain on small businesses, whose owners suddenly face a markedly increased wage bill. Reducing the burden on them in terms of reducing direct taxation might help.

I wouldn't, however, welcome this policy being extended to large multinationals. They should be more than able to cope with a slightly increased wage bill and reducing taxation for them potentially sets a dangerous precedent. It is a moot point now but an independent Scotland might have risked being sucked into a business tax 'race to the bottom' with its larger, neo-liberal neighbour to the south. And with a Balls or an Osborne in charge, that isn't a race I'd have wanted us to be involved in!

That said, business taxation can be as low or high as we like - the important thing is that businesses actually pay them. I see no bar, in theory, of a country adopting a tax regime that encourages business and trade while at the same time ensuring they pay their fair share, as well as adopting policies that ensure workers also get a fair deal.

As an Anglophone country that is a member of the EU and in the Eurozone Ireland has a USP. It was always my understanding that that is what made it attractive to American companies.

The Irish government's water taxation policy is a disgrace though, btw.