92,000 Snp Members

[Scunnered]

Enlighten us?

They are proposing cutting services by £500m under authorized spending, including a cut of GP services, library services, public service staff numbers. This may sound very well, even I was prepared to argue that the government are constrained by the block grant. Until I seen that they are budgeting £615m for Tax relief for businesses.

I've been to one Yes meeting since the referendum, I was ganged up on at it and called "Economically illiterate", "Don't recognise Socialism when you see it"... And someone even called me a Labour Stooge The SNP membership are too caught up in media bias arguements and the like to influence party policy... Obviously I don't include them all, but the numbers required to influence are.

Edit: The above doesn't include council cuts as I can't remember figures. Glasgow City Councils budget will be cut by £100m over the next 3 years is the only one that comes to mind.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Scunnered

[Lamia]

They are proposing cutting services by £500m under authorized spending, including a cut of GP services, library services, public service staff numbers. This may sound very well, even I was prepared to argue that the government are constrained by the block grant. Until I seen that they are budgeting £615m for Tax relief for businesses.

I've been to one Yes meeting since the referendum, I was ganged up on at it and called "Economically illiterate", "Don't recognise Socialism when you see it"... And someone even called me a Labour Stooge The SNP membership are too caught up in media bias arguements and the like to influence party policy... Obviously I don't include them all, but the numbers required to influence are.

Edit: The above doesn't include council cuts as I can't remember figures. Glasgow City Councils budget will be cut by £100m over the next 3 years is the only one that comes to mind.

I don't suppose I can argue with you without examining it. Excuse my laziness but where could I go to look at the proposals.

That said as you have demonstrated there is no credible alternative right now

[Ally Bongo]

I don't suppose I can argue with you without examining it. Excuse my laziness but where could I go to look at the proposals.

That said as you have demonstrated there is no credible alternative right now

I think this is what he is referring to - basically refusing to implement Westminster cuts

We explained what SNP and Labour politicians could do: “Socialist Party Scotland is calling on all councils in Scotland and the Scottish Government to set no-cuts budgets. Immediate cuts can be avoided through the use of reserves and borrowing powers, where appropriate, to give time to build a mass campaign to win back the more than £3 billion stolen since 2010. We shook the establishment to its foundations with the threat of a Yes majority. By making a stand against the cuts, we could bring the rotten Tory government to its knees.”

By setting a No Cuts budget this would: “give time for mass campaigning in the trade unions and communities for mass mobilisations, which would be a direct political challenge to the Westminster government.

“Such a challenge would create a huge political crisis and would, without doubt, spread to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, where many would demand that their councils took the same stand.

And we went on to say: “Imagine if the Scottish Government and a number of councils in Scotland stood up and said enough is enough? We saw the panicked concessions cobbled together by Project Fear when it thought the referendum might be lost. Of course we could push the Tories and Labour back again, if we fight.”

[Lamia]

I think this is what he is referring to - basically refusing to implement Westminster cuts

We explained what SNP and Labour politicians could do: “Socialist Party Scotland is calling on all councils in Scotland and the Scottish Government to set no-cuts budgets. Immediate cuts can be avoided through the use of reserves and borrowing powers, where appropriate, to give time to build a mass campaign to win back the more than £3 billion stolen since 2010. We shook the establishment to its foundations with the threat of a Yes majority. By making a stand against the cuts, we could bring the rotten Tory government to its knees.”

By setting a No Cuts budget this would: “give time for mass campaigning in the trade unions and communities for mass mobilisations, which would be a direct political challenge to the Westminster government.

“Such a challenge would create a huge political crisis and would, without doubt, spread to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, where many would demand that their councils took the same stand.

And we went on to say: “Imagine if the Scottish Government and a number of councils in Scotland stood up and said enough is enough? We saw the panicked concessions cobbled together by Project Fear when it thought the referendum might be lost. Of course we could push the Tories and Labour back again, if we fight.”

I saw that and think it is worth considering. I am maybe missing something though because I didn't think we had borrowing powers

[thplinth]

It is such a long road to a new referendum, such a long way to walk the tight rope that is the middle ground on every policy decision between then and now.

So you would think you would try to figure out a way to keep as many people on board as possible...

Yet I find out today we now have a highly contentious and party splitting '50/50 male female cabinet policy' backed by Nicola? edit : for glaring inaccuracies.

Alex was a class act. This is gesture crap.

Edited November 23, 2014 by thplinth

[Lamia]

It is such a long road to a new referendum, such a long way to walk the tight rope that is the middle ground on every policy decision between then and now.

So you would think you would try to figure out a way to keep as many people on board as possible...

Yet I find out today we now have a highly contentious and party splitting '50/50 male female cabinet policy' backed by Nicola? edit : for glaring inaccuracies.

Alex was a class act. This is gesture crap.

[Lamia]

To be honest I was a bit sick of Salmond thinking men were more qualified.

[kumnio]

To be honest I was a bit sick of Salmond

That should be a banning offence

[Lamia]

That should be a banning offence

[Scunnered]

The budget draft can be found here: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/10/2706

There is a PDF version somewhere on WSW.org that highlights the worst of the cuts. For those who won't read it, I'll leave you with a couple of quotes from Swinney to contemplate:

"We can relieve the tax burden on businesses by around £615 million in 2015-16 through our business rates relief package"

"There is opportunity for reform of public services by partnership working between the public sector, third sector, business and local communities.

For me, 'reform' is a terrifying word given whom he says will be involved.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Scunnered

[Lamia]

The budget draft can be found here: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/10/2706

There is a PDF version somewhere on WSW.org that highlights the worst of the cuts. For those who won't read it, I'll leave you with a couple of quotes from Swinney to contemplate:

"We can relive the tax burden on businesses by around £615 million in 2015-16 through our business rates relief package"

"There is opportunity for reform of public services by partnership working between the public sector, third sector, business and local communities”.

For me, 'reform' is a terrifying word given whom he says will be involved.

I am no fan of the SNP's attitude to business. I was really hacked off with the Trump thing but they are the party closest to my views that does actually have a chance at Westminster. If I voted for the Greens then the Liberals or Conservatives are most likely to get in. Then at Holyrood we need a majority Yes Party to have any chance of another referendum and no other Yes party has a chance of that.

[Lamia]

Ah so we can borrow now - knew it was coming just didn't know when.

[Ally Bongo]

Is there any chance we can get Independence first then gripe about that ruling party's policies or how many women to men ratio they have in their cabinet ?

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ally Bongo

[Scunnered]

Is there any chance we can get Independence first then gripe about that ruling party's policies or how many women to men ratio they have in their cabinet ?

I'd rather have social justice first, independence or not.

[Lamia]

I'd rather have social justice first, independence or not.

Won't happen under this system so how do you break it?

[Flure]

I'd rather have social justice first, independence or not.

Do you have a plan for how that will happen in the present constitutional arrangement?

[Ally Bongo]

Ah so we can borrow now - knew it was coming just didn't know when.

I'd rather have social justice first, independence or not.

These borrowing powers do not come into effect until April next year and are described here

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/04/5026/3

Not sure if they have been brought forward

Now i am curious to the following & perhaps you can enlighten me

Have the SSP gone into detail of the repercussions of any Scottish Govermnent not implementing Westminster cuts instead of saying it will be fine and everything will be alright ?

Edited November 23, 2014 by Ally Bongo

[Lamia]

These borrowing powers do not come into effect until April next year and are described here

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/04/5026/3

Not sure if they have been brought forward

Now i am curious to the following & perhaps you can enlighten me

Have the SSP gone into detail of the repercussions of any Scottish Govermnent not implementing Westminster cuts instead of saying it will be fine and everything will be alright ?

I would be really interested in that too. I quite like the idea of making a stand but would like to know what the impact of that would be

[Ally Bongo]

I would be really interested in that too. I quite like the idea of making a stand but would like to know what the impact of that would be

Agreed

It's not in the SNP's interests to implement cuts and become unpopular so with 92,000 members & 50% polling intentions they would have that mandate

[Scunnered]

Won't happen under this system so how do you break it?

Do you have a plan for how that will happen in the present constitutional arrangement?

In all honest truth I've no idea. On a British level we have a Labour party which has been centre right for so long that the few lefts in the party are being forced to back a bumbling moron of a leader to avoid a Blairite coup. So its a case of them backing Ed and losing the election, or conceding to the rightist majority of the party, installing a new leader and facing another New Labour government.

On a Scottish level we have Scottish Labour so distrusted in Scotland for their part in project fear that even in the event of progressives Findlay and Clark in leadership their next campaign would be a futile embarrassment.

As far as the independence question it concerned, we now have a neo-liberal party so popular in Scotland that by the time adequate opposition can be established, we'd be just as unequal or more so than the UK today.

I genuinely hoped that Nicolas leadership would take them to the left, but this draft took away that optimism.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

By all means if Independence is what matters most at any cost then yes, SNP have you covered.

Have the SSP gone into detail of the repercussions of any Scottish Govermnent not implementing Westminster cuts instead of saying it will be fine and everything will be alright ?

Right at this moment the SSP don't know their arse from their elbow. Colin Fox is still damaged goods from his "banks are marvellous" shite during indyref, but no one in the party seems keen to take initiative.

[Ally Bongo]

I genuinely hoped that Nicolas leadership would take them to the left, but this draft took away that optimism.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

By all means if Independence is what matters most at any cost then yes, SNP have you covered.

She has only been in the job less than a week - give her a bit of time.

As with all parties the proof will be in the pudding

[Scunnered]

I guess in an ideal world, the SNP membership would stop getting angry at the media, or whatever that Wings Over Scotland dickhead tells them to be angry at and start scrutinising their own party. Instead we have idiots saying the working class shouldn't be allowed to vote, that voting should be limited to those educated to degree level and calling people who question them "economically illiterate" or Labour stooges.

[Scunnered]

She has only been in the job less than a week - give her a bit of time.

As with all parties the proof will be in the pudding

Start as you mean to go on, as they say.

[Lamia]

Start as you mean to go on, as they say.

Has she approved this draft budget?

[Dave78]

I guess in an ideal world, the SNP membership would stop getting angry at the media, or whatever that Wings Over Scotland Seb Coe tells them to be angry at and start scrutinising their own party. Instead we have idiots saying the working class shouldn't be allowed to vote, that voting should be limited to those educated to degree level and calling people who question them "economically illiterate" or Labour stooges.

Who is saying that? Do you mean the Wings guy, or folk in the SNP?