phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 But the character of Michael Brown isn't what the issue is, it's the actions of the police officer. You seem to be assuming that since we saw someone in graduation robes (i never, i also don't watch any mainstream media) we are taking their side. It was like with Mark Duggan, the character of the guy shouldn't really a metric for whether its cool to gun someone down or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 On the picture issue, it's america everyone has pictures of themselves with guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holty Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I haven't been following this as closely as others but while it looks like Brown was a 'bad egg' & probably did approach/threaten/attack the officer, when & where is it deemed appropriate for an officer to fire 12 shots in self defence? Many of these shots were allegedly fired when Brown was wounded and on his knees or crouched over. Would the verdict on Wilson have been the same if this had been a white on white, black on white or black on black killing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) Let's get something straight here. The snippets of selective news that you get back home on this matter is the sensationalism I was on about. The same way America never saw a single piece of credible journalism over Scotland's referendum, something I argue about weekly here. The way Michael Brown was portrayed as some angel to make a news story because it just happened to be a white police officer who shot a black citizen. Everyday here as you know the crime is huge and the death rates due to shootings are scandalous. That cannot be denied and is appalling. But instead of the news fanning this over three months by constantly referring to the respective colours of those involved skin, why not treat it as a the incident or "crime" it was investigated to be? Because that is what this was. Whether Wilson was guilty or not is another matter. The "animals" I referred to are not those peacefully protesting in cities like New York and Chicago but those animals who have tore up parts of St. Louis daily. Buildings destroyed, rows upon rows of cars alight, shops looted, etc..... This has been going on for months now daily and is why the National Guard had to move in. The world loves a news story and that's why the played the image of "innocent" Michael Brown over and over again in his angelic graduation ceremony robes. When in reality he was more like this........... If you live by the sword and all that...... Except that's not Michael Brown in that picture. http://www.kshb.com/news/crime/mother-of-kc-teen-accused-of-murdering-family-member-in-oregon-in-shock There is something to be said about the media's role in all this. The main picture used by the media of Michael Brown is this one: The picture is about 4/5 years ago when Brown would about 12 or 13. The same trick got pulled with Trayvon Martin. The media put up these baby-faced pictures to heighten their innocence and the white guilt. Disproportionate levels of reporting go in to white on black violence versus black on white violence in the US. Any white on black violence is automatically regarded as a hate crime, when the situation is reversed the hate crime aspect is underplayed or ignored completely. Michael Brown robbed a store, repeatedly punched a policeman and tried to get his gun. The policeman shot him and killed him. Michael Brown was a scumbag who deserved to get shot. The folk rioting last night and looting for the last three months are scumbags too. Edited November 25, 2014 by brant grebner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Except that's not Michael Brown in that picture. http://www.kshb.com/news/crime/mother-of-kc-teen-accused-of-murdering-family-member-in-oregon-in-shock There is something to be said about the media's role in all this. The main picture used by the media of Michael Brown is this one: The picture is about 4/5 years ago when Brown would about 12 or 13. The same trick got pulled with Trayvon Martin. The media put up these baby-faced pictures to heighten their innocence and the white guilt. Disproportionate levels of reporting go in to white on black violence versus black on white violence in the US. Any white on black violence is automatically regarded as a hate crime, when the situation is reversed the hate crime aspect is underplayed or ignored completely. Michael Brown robbed a store, repeatedly punched a policeman and tried to get his gun. The policeman shot him and killed him. Michael Brown was a scumbag who deserved to get shot. The folk rioting last night and looting for the last three months are scumbags too. According to the policeman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 According to the policeman.No, according to the witnesses. If you listened to Bob McCulloch last night you'd understand that. But you sound like you've just looked at a couple of social media statuses from some daft kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 and accepted by the grand jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 No, according to the witnesses. If you listened to Bob McCulloch last night you'd understand that. But you sound like you've just looked at a couple of social media statuses from some daft kid. The witness statements vary wildly in the events which they describe (as posted by phart above). Some agree with most of the policeman's account, some with parts of it, some seem to contradict it all. I guess it's only natural when witnessing something like that. They certainly don't all describe similar events to Brant's (succinct) description, which is what I highlighted - what he seems to have done is summarised the policeman's account of what happened, while ignoring the contradictory witness statements. I've no idea who Bob McCulloch is, by the way. This guy? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/24/bob-mcculloch-ferguson_n_6215986.html The St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney seems a likely choice if you're looking for impartial opinion on this topic..... and accepted by the grand jury. A decision which has been questioned by that bastion of radical thinking, the American Bar Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 http://www.nationalbar.org/ it's a black lawyers and judges group. it's like Al Sharpton putting out a statement condemning the verdict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilScotsman Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) http://www.nationalbar.org/ it's a black lawyers and judges group. it's like Al Sharpton putting out a statement condemning the verdict. So it is - silly me! I'd assumed it was the organisation which accredited Yankee lawyers, but stand corrected. Edited November 25, 2014 by EvilScotsman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Except that's not Michael Brown in that picture. http://www.kshb.com/news/crime/mother-of-kc-teen-accused-of-murdering-family-member-in-oregon-in-shock There is something to be said about the media's role in all this. The main picture used by the media of Michael Brown is this one: The picture is about 4/5 years ago when Brown would about 12 or 13. The same trick got pulled with Trayvon Martin. The media put up these baby-faced pictures to heighten their innocence and the white guilt. Disproportionate levels of reporting go in to white on black violence versus black on white violence in the US. Any white on black violence is automatically regarded as a hate crime, when the situation is reversed the hate crime aspect is underplayed or ignored completely. Michael Brown robbed a store, repeatedly punched a policeman and tried to get his gun. The policeman shot him and killed him. Michael Brown was a scumbag who deserved to get shot. The folk rioting last night and looting for the last three months are scumbags too. The issue isn't what pictures the media put up, it's the relationship between citizens and police officers. He also never robbed a store. It was shop-lifting plus it was released selectively as other more relevant information was denied using the same freedom requests. You keep bringing race into it, which shows you what big an issue it must be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Bob McCulloch had a 70k petition to have himself removed cause of conflicts of interest. You might have listened to him last night have you studied his record in power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 No, according to the witnesses. If you listened to Bob McCulloch last night you'd understand that. But you sound like you've just looked at a couple of social media statuses from some daft kid. Dude you're posting pictures claiming it was him, smearing the dead, then trying to smear the folk on here responding by making up stories about how folk read about the issue. Surely it's not hard to stick to the information as has been presented, surely the case is strong enough without having to create these wee fantastical bio's about folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipped flake Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It is hard for us in Scotland to get our heads round things like this as we live in a country where gun crime is almost non-existent. It has been stated on here that white on black crime is reported as hate crime while the other way round isn't and I have no idea if this is correct or not. I would ask Ormond how many instances there have been of black police officers shooting an unarmed white man? I would suspect none but I really don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The Martin case had nothing to do with crime, it had all to do with someone thinking they had the right to control someones movements and then in doing this "ego-driven" action escalated into situations where both had to use deadly force, with various shades of grey about self-defence. Race has nothing specifically to do with the trigger point actions. Maybe to do with the coverage , in fact probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It is hard for us in Scotland to get our heads round things like this as we live in a country where gun crime is almost non-existent. It has been stated on here that white on black crime is reported as hate crime while the other way round isn't and I have no idea if this is correct or not. I would ask Ormond how many instances there have been of black police officers shooting an unarmed white man? I would suspect none but I really don't know. Or maybe every other race respects the law a little more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I don't know what happened, but I have a better insight than most in to the how the "street" works and what it is like to be be black having watched "The Wire". Having reviewed all the evidence, I believe the copper. Dorian Johnson just looks like a lying little shit with all his tattoos up to his face. And going by the rules of GTA V outlined earlier, Brown went to a 2 star wanted level the moment he hit the police officer. The copper had to put a full clip in to his head to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Or maybe every other race respects the law a little more? sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 badger sake. Because you would see it first hand every single day in Scotland right enough. I work in the city of Chicago everyday and you would realise where my statement comes from if you could experience that. But you continue to live in your wee bubble where everybody who lives in America who is non-black is part of the KKK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Could a big problem not be the poverty that a lot of the black americans have to endure, with no welfare state to help them. America is such a contradictory country - land of the free etc, but with some of the worst racial problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The Martin case had nothing to do with crime, it had all to do with someone thinking they had the right to control someones movements and then in doing this "ego-driven" action escalated into situations where both had to use deadly force, with various shades of grey about self-defence. Race has nothing specifically to do with the trigger point actions. Maybe to do with the coverage , in fact probably. Race plays a part in the triggering in both cases - in the Martin case, the guy who got off with it was scared of the big black guy wandering about his neighbourhood watch area with his hoody up. If it was a wee chinese fella then it's unlikely Zimmerman would have had to shoot him principally as he wouldn't have reacted to a chinese in the same way, but also cos it's more likely he could overpower a chinese and not get his head punched in - unless the chinese guy knew kung fu in which case it would be even stevens. In the Brown case, the hero copper was looking for 2 blacks who had robbed a convenience store. If it had been 2 eskimos that had robbed the store, then Brown may still be alive today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brant grebner Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It is hard for us in Scotland to get our heads round things like this as we live in a country where gun crime is almost non-existent. It has been stated on here that white on black crime is reported as hate crime while the other way round isn't and I have no idea if this is correct or not. I would ask Ormond how many instances there have been of black police officers shooting an unarmed white man? I would suspect none but I really don't know. Dillon Taylor got shot by a black cop in Utah a couple of days after Michael Brown was shot http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/25/critics-see-racial-double-standard-in-coverage-of-/?page=all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Could a big problem not be the poverty that a lot of the black americans have to endure, with no welfare state to help them. America is such a contradictory country - land of the free etc, but with some of the worst racial problems No welfare? Are you kidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Is it the land of milk and honey then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Race plays a part in the triggering in both cases - in the Martin case, the guy who got off with it was scared of the big black guy wandering about his neighbourhood watch area with his hoody up. If it was a wee chinese fella then it's unlikely Zimmerman would have had to shoot him principally as he wouldn't have reacted to a chinese in the same way, but also cos it's more likely he could overpower a chinese and not get his head punched in - unless the chinese guy knew kung fu in which case it would be even stevens. In the Brown case, the hero copper was looking for 2 blacks who had robbed a convenience store. If it had been 2 eskimos that had robbed the store, then Brown may still be alive today. He wasn't looking for them though Brant, the "robbery" was not known to the officer at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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