Robroysboy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 We landed in a very tough group. I think Ulster would have finished 5th in our group. spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argentina78 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I don't think we lacked spirit, although Georgia was very weird. What really happened there? We all knew after Georgia scored after 38 mins that we'd never score that night, you just knew it It's sad to say but it's true, we really don't have any bottle, is it bcos we've always felt inferior being under English control, ? I don't know, but it's true.......and even sadder to admit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 we really don't have any bottle, is it bcos we've always felt inferior being under English control, ? I dunno, while politically we've become more nationalist our fitba team's got worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goozay Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 We landed in a very tough group. I think Ulster would have finished 5th in our group. Wales couldn't score a goal v Bosnia in 2 games.But the same Bosnia were rolled over by an Ireland who I thought were inferior to us over 180 minutes. The draw killed us. That said we are very poor defensively and WGS must take a share of the blame for this. Ireland are not better than us man for man. Keogh & Ward would barely make our squad bur performed excellently against Bosnia. Ireland know how to eek out draws and stuffy wins while we ddon't. IMO we lack mental toughness and I wonder if this fact alone costs us. An English pal of mine suggested that Roy Keane might give Ireland a massive edge. He reckons him being part of their set up will really toughen them. Imagine having to confront Keane at FT after a poor result or a mistake. We don't have a real presence in the coaching staff. Someone to give us real belief. Keane is an idiot but no doubting his tough streak and how he would never accept 2nd best. This is what we miss. In Tblisi our coaching team would be giving our guys a wee cuddle. If that was Ireland they would have had a Keane style rollicking and left in no uncertain terms what was needed. I ain't knocking WGS Mccall or Mcghee but we need to toughen up. It's not coaching or youths it's our soft as putty mentality. Has to change. A lot of truth in that post. Our group was definitely tougher than Northern Ireland's but we were in the same group as the Republic's and they made third place and qualified through a tricky play off, whereas we're oot. Qualifying is a habit and it's one we've obviously lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Point being... Is strachan man for job.....not mumbo jumbo ma friend Aye he is unless you can get us a better replacement x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green_Tide_Rising Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) We definitely shot ourselves in the foot in Tbilisi but in hindsight we didn't get a lot of luck with the draw compared with other groups, finishing behind:- World champions World's best striker World's jammiest team I've no doubt as long as the 24 team Euros format is continued we'll qualify more often than we don't... Ye shot yereselve's in the foot because ye got zero points away to Georgia, Zero points at home to Germany , Zero Points away to Germany whereas your group rivals did...its nothing to do with a team being world champions, or worlds best striker or a team being as you say "jammy" ..... ye got 2 own goals yereselves that got ye points - so every team gets a slice of luck or a stroke of "jamminess" Ireland do have a steel about them in getting results when required.....at the moment despite Scotland having a similar level of player to us...ye dont have it...its nothing to do with jaminess or anything else.....its just something that ye have to obtain and im pretty certain ye will as ye continue to develop and become more experienced under ye're current manager provided both he and the players learn from the mistakes made in the last campaign. Ireland are not better than us man for man. Keogh & Ward would barely make our squad bur performed excellently against Bosnia. Ireland know how to eek out draws and stuffy wins while we ddon't. IMO we lack mental toughness and I wonder if this fact alone costs us. An English pal of mine suggested that Roy Keane might give Ireland a massive edge. He reckons him being part of their set up will really toughen them. Imagine having to confront Keane at FT after a poor result or a mistake. Man for man - both nations are pretty similar - im not going into the what players are better ,cos id sooner get more joy out of smacking my head against a brick wall. Richard Keogh plays for a very good promotion pushing Derby and has been a mainstay in their team for the last couple of years while Stephen Ward whilst been an absolute tryer - is nowhere near International class nor should he be in the ireland squad nor the scotland squad (if he was scottish). He only played for us against Bosnia in the away leg and was brutal - he was subsquently dropped for the return leg in Dublin and replace by Robbie Brady at left back (whom im sure his club team-mate Russell Martin will agree with me when i say...is class) By all accounts Roy Keane is actually pretty relaxed in the Ireland camps.....i would be of the opinion that we have our "toughness" due to the fact we just have more recent experience of qualifying than ye guys in more recent times- nothing more In the last 6 years - including Euro 2016 - we will have been to 2 Euro championship finals and narrowly missing out in a world cup playoff. Add in the experience of senior players Robbie Keane and Shay Given...who both played in the 2002 world cup finals ...that can only benefit our less experienced squad members I would be confident enough that Scotland once they obtain some continuity with management etc - that toughness/steelness will come and with it future qualification Edited November 22, 2015 by Green_Tide_Rising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 We definitely shot ourselves in the foot in Tbilisi but in hindsight we didn't get a lot of luck with the draw compared with other groups, finishing behind:- World champions World's best striker World's jammiest team I've no doubt as long as the 24 team Euros format is continued we'll qualify more often than we don't... so much pish in one post, I wouldn't like to have seen the unedited one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLT NY Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 An English pal of mine suggested that Roy Keane might give Ireland a massive edge. He reckons him being part of their set up will really toughen them. Imagine having to confront Keane at FT after a poor result or a mistake. We don't have a real presence in the coaching staff. Someone to give us real belief. Keane is an idiot but no doubting his tough streak and how he would never accept 2nd best. This is what we miss. In Tblisi our coaching team would be giving our guys a wee cuddle. If that was Ireland they would have had a Keane style rollicking and left in no uncertain terms what was needed. I ain't knocking WGS Mccall or Mcghee but we need to toughen up. It's not coaching or youths it's our soft as putty mentality. Has to change. I don't really think this is realistic in this day and age. If a player gets a rollicking like you're suggesting at international level, it's likely he may just pack it in. I suspect that's what happened with Davie Weir after the Faroes. In the end of the day, as much as their proud to represent their country, they probably expect to be treated with respect and wouldn't be inclined to leave their families and face more of the same if they don't get that. This would be particularly true if their used to being treated well at their club side, so I think international coaches have to tread a thin line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal smith Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Souness is a pish manager. Strachan although failing us is the only guy to do the job right now. Is he? Wonder how that guy Lagerback that the SFA turned down is getting on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Lagerback wouldn't take the job now, well not unless he loves a challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I don't think we lacked spirit, although Georgia was very weird. It was very weird. Stand out like a sore thumb in fact compared to all the other games. Watching it I was thinking these players don't want to go to the world cup. Can't think of any reason why that would be true but that is what it felt like on the night. They just did not turn up, no drive, no intensity, it was utter pish, cost us third. (Doubt we would have had the mentality to win the play off anyway.) Not sure I can blame Strachan for that although generally agree about him picking favourites and no plan B. I worry Gordon is stuck in his ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossman4 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'd like to see Strachan get someone like Christian Daily involved, might not be a Roy Keane type but by f**k he'd get them told and up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'd like to see Strachan get someone like Christian Daily involved, might not be a Roy Keane type but by f**k he'd get them told and up for it. I have said in the past that getting Willie Miller on the coaching team to work specifically on the defensive structure would be a benefit. Someone who has been there and knows what is required to keep teams out. That way we can start to give our more creative players the confidence to build attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 so much pish in one post, I wouldn't like to have seen the unedited one. Ok I'll edit it further:- We had one really bad game. We got a hard draw. We will qualify again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Lagerback wouldn't take the job now, well not unless he loves a challenge Lagerback is a superb coach /man manager, of that there is no doubt. But the main benefit he has with the Iceland job is the wholehearted backing of the Icelandic FA, financially and strategically. They have recognised what is needed to bring success to their national team, and now, after all the investment, they are ready to start reaping the benefits. Unfortunately Scotland is a completely different animal, with our clubs and national association being far too insular and refusing for even one second to look at the longer term benefits of investing serious money in our training facilities and coaching ethos. I won't hold my breath on anything changing any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Ok I'll edit it further:- We had one really bad game. We got a hard draw. We will qualify again. Spot on. Ireland lose to Germany, we're in the play-offs and hailed as heroes. But Ireland somehow beat Germany and we suddenly become pish. Bizarre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I could just be trying to make us feel better but finishing 4th would have been easier to take if we did the business in Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I could just be trying to make us feel better but finishing 4th would have been easier to take if we did the business in Georgia It wasn't the defeat in tiblisi, it was the manner of the defeat. Not one shot at goal. So dissapointing as three points would surely have gave us the momentum to go and get at least 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It wasn't the defeat in tiblisi, it was the manner of the defeat. Not one shot at goal. So dissapointing as three points would surely have gave us the momentum to go and get at least 3rd. Definitely, the performance was very strange compared with other games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) It wasn't the defeat in tiblisi, it was the manner of the defeat. Not one shot at goal. So dissapointing as three points would surely have gave us the momentum to go and get at least 3rd. The defeat also gave Ireland renewed hope. They wouldn't have beaten Germany otherwise I don't think. Defeat in Tbilisi was a double whammy. Edited November 24, 2015 by DaveyDenoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 It wasn't the defeat in tiblisi, it was the manner of the defeat. Not one shot at goal. So dissapointing as three points would surely have gave us the momentum to go and get at least 3rd. And we could've lost about 3-0 that night. Well beaten. Strachan saying we didn't deserve to lose afterwards was disappointingly untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coybig2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 bear in mind, that had you beaten Georgia, and the other results were the same. The game in Poland then is entirely different, a point would have done us. the way it panned out, it was all or nothing, go for the win or 2-2 draw or higher or dont and get the play off. It would have been a different match in Poland for Ireland, if we couldnt afford to lose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 And we could've lost about 3-0 that night. Well beaten. Strachan saying we didn't deserve to lose afterwards was disappointingly untrue. Georgia were happy to win 1 nil. But they were more likely to score again, than we were to equalise. I agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 NI done better than Scotland. They won In Budapest, Athens, Helsinki. Whilst their group wasn't as a difficult as ours and they got Greece, we'd have messed up somewhere and I doubt we'd take 9pts from those matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robroysboy Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 NI done better than Scotland. They won In Budapest, Athens, Helsinki. Whilst their group wasn't as a difficult as ours and they got Greece, we'd have messed up somewhere and I doubt we'd take 9pts from those matches. Hypothetical I know, but would like to think we would have qualified from that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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