Rangers are Rocking; Scottys Financial insight inside.

[Flure]

Loans were repaid from the most recent share issue. I don't think they were ever overdue for payment.

That's my understanding - I'm just wondering how the hell Rangers will get out of this loop. Always needing "emergency" loans to continue to pay the bills and always mortgaging the Car Park and Edminston House.

Is this where Ashley comes in?

[ShedTA]

That's my understanding - I'm just wondering how the hell Rangers will get out of this loop. Always needing "emergency" loans to continue to pay the bills and always mortgaging the Car Park and Edminston House.

Is this where Ashley comes in?

If this is where ashley comes in why is his emergency loan secured against Albion car park and Edmiston house?

[UPROAR]

so not having followed this in detail... there are now a number of people own the rights to, or bits of Rangers. Green owns rights to a few things (badge?), Ashley owns rights to car park and offices, I'm sure there are others who own similar pieces. How is it best to capitalise on these assets ?

Do Rangers 'need' a car park, or an office block. Most teams manage fine without them. So either Green, Ashley, Easdale et al pump investment into the club and make a modest return, eventually, maybe, depending on the way risk and success works out... or they let the club slip into admin and exercise their rights to those assets to the next mug who comes along and buys the carcass.

How much would Ashley have to invest to win the SPL £15m initially plus another £10m/yr ? what return is there from that ?

I dont see a scenario where pumping a fortune into this club is a necessary, viable or desirable risk for anyone other than the most ardent idealist. Too much easy money to be made other ways.

am I missing something ?

[bruce778]

If this is where ashley comes in why is his emergency loan secured against Albion car park and Edmiston house?

I'm not saying I agree with the loan to Ashley but it's unreasonable to expect an interest free loan not to be secured over something. Easedale and letham had the same security. The two properties in question are hardly sought after properties.

The 6 month period of the loan is bizarre. Cynically you could say it takes in January transfer window so would we be looking to sell Wallace and Macleod? We don't really have any other players of value.

But I can't see that being the 'plan'. I think the plan is to put us in a position of no leverage come April time and require us to do some shoddy deal with mash holdings or whatever in return for not calling in the loan.

The only way out of this that I can see is the SFA stepping in and saying Ashley is in breach of his agreement with the SFA which he clearly is.

I also think the only kind of intimidation that might work against Ashley easdales green etc is the possibility of personal liability. Given the horrific deals that have been struck by directors, I think the fans group should be looking into minority shareholder action against those directors for breach of fiduciary duties. I have no idea if the minority shareholders have standing in these circumstances but no one could reasonably say selling stadium rights for £1 is acting in the best interests of the company. Whoever did that deal should be personally liable to the company for the difference from the actual market value.

[bruce778]

so not having followed this in detail... there are now a number of people own the rights to, or bits of Rangers. Green owns rights to a few things (badge?), Ashley owns rights to car park and offices, I'm sure there are others who own similar pieces. How is it best to capitalise on these assets ?

Do Rangers 'need' a car park, or an office block. Most teams manage fine without them. So either Green, Ashley, Easdale et al pump investment into the club and make a modest return, eventually, maybe, depending on the way risk and success works out... or they let the club slip into admin and exercise their rights to those assets to the next mug who comes along and buys the carcass.

How much would Ashley have to invest to win the SPL £15m initially plus another £10m/yr ? what return is there from that ?

I dont see a scenario where pumping a fortune into this club is a necessary, viable or desirable risk for anyone other than the most ardent idealist. Too much easy money to be made other ways.

am I missing something ?

Rangers still own all of the assets.

Rangers have been given a loan of £2m by mash holdings which is secured over edminston house and the Albion car park.

As far as I am aware, the rights to the badge etc being sold is rumour and not been confirmed.

[tartandon]

What are the monthly running costs?

How long will this £2m last?

If the £2m is to cover running costs and allow them to pay wages, what happens at the end of the 6 months? How do they repay this money given that they had to have a share issue to repay the last loan they got?

The quickest way out of this form them is to just sell off Murray Park. But do they own this?

[scoobydoo]

They'll keep having super duper share issues until they've bled everyone stupid enough to give them a pound, dry.

[ShedTA]

If we needed any confirmation about how Ashley got involved with rangers - this from the Suzie mcGuire trial about events in 2011:

Giving evidence, she described being assaulted in the Grill Room at 29, a private members club at Royal Exchange Square, Glasgow, in December 2011. She said she had hosted the Cash for Kids lunch at the Hilton hotel earlier that day and afterwards had gone on to an after-party with her husband and others, including Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley and former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, who was then still with the club.

Ms McGuire said Mr Ashley gave her a cuddle and congratulated her on the amount of money raised. She said: “Derek lost it, really, really turned very vicious and very nasty at that point. He slapped me across the face and bit me on the shoulder in front of company, in front of quite a lot of people.”

She said Mitchell then tried to hit Mr Ashley, and she was “humiliated”.

So ashley was associating with Craig Whyte in 2011. why is that not a surprise?

[sbcmfc]

If we needed any confirmation about how Ashley got involved with rangers - this from the Suzie mcGuire trial about events in 2011:

Giving evidence, she described being assaulted in the Grill Room at 29, a private members club at Royal Exchange Square, Glasgow, in December 2011. She said she had hosted the Cash for Kids lunch at the Hilton hotel earlier that day and afterwards had gone on to an after-party with her husband and others, including Newcastle United owner Mike Ashley and former Rangers owner Craig Whyte, who was then still with the club.

Ms McGuire said Mr Ashley gave her a cuddle and congratulated her on the amount of money raised. She said: Derek lost it, really, really turned very vicious and very nasty at that point. He slapped me across the face and bit me on the shoulder in front of company, in front of quite a lot of people.

She said Mitchell then tried to hit Mr Ashley, and she was humiliated.

So ashley was associating with Craig Whyte in 2011. why is that not a surprise?

Quality bit of detective work.

The web connecting all these characters is intriguing!

[ShedTA]

Quality bit of detective work.

The web connecting all these characters is intriguing!

to be fair, its just come out now. on twitter today - so not my work I am afraid...but yes very intriguing.

the phrase thick as theives springs to mind.

Edited October 29, 2014 by ShedTA

[Ally Bongo]

I dont think any detective work is required for the question that none of the media seems to be asking is;

Why are no other Scottish clubs requiring million of pounds of bailouts/ more share issues every 6 months + to keep afloat ?

Rangers have almost as many Directors/Executives on whopping salaries as they do in their starting line up is an obvious part of the answer for starters id suggest

[Redz]

My view would be not to ask any questions and let them crack on.

[Caledonian Craig]

I dont think any detective work is required for the question that none of the media seems to be asking is;

Why are no other Scottish clubs requiring million of pounds of bailouts/ more share issues every 6 months + to keep afloat ?

Rangers have almost as many Directors/Executives on whopping salaries as they do in their starting line up is an obvious part of the answer for starters id suggest

I think the real reason is evident. The players wage bill. Outside of Celtic the wage bill at Rangers is highest in Scotland yet they are playing in the Championship. Absolutely crazy. Someone at Rangers should have looked at that and put a sensible xap on wages considering the lower level of football they are playing at. If the players don't like it - tough. Survival should come before appeasing players.

[Scotty CTA]

Or fans.

[Pool Q]

There is an article in The Scotsman today covering the presence of Ashley and Whyte at the same function at which the DJ was assaulted by her husband, and also one one on the BBC today (Rangers: Why are the Ibrox club in such trouble?) that addresses some of the background to the issues mentioned above. It was always ludicrous that Rangers were paying out wages to players like Black, Shiels, McCulloch, Templeton, Wallace and Daly in the 2nd and 1st Divisions, only compounded by McCoists' wages and then bringing in Miller and Boyd to play Alloa, Cowdenbeath and Dumbarton this year. Even so with over 30,000 in Ibrox every second week, merchandising and sundry share issues it is hard not to feel that it isn't just the wage bill that is swallowing the money, quite where it is going is an interesting question.

[Caledonian Craig]

Wherever else the money is going clearly the wage bill is way way too high and should have been reduced a long time ago. Rank incompetence by those that signed players onto contracts paying wages only bettered by Celtic. That is just crazy when you consider what league Rangers are playing in. The thing is it won't change so even more incompetence then for letting it continue.

Personally, and I remember back to when Gers fans were moving to out Murray from Rangers and I did remember telling a Gers fan they were making a huge mistake. It was their movement that put Rangers where they are now. At least with Murray there was a degree of financial stability.

[Fairbairn]

Wherever else the money is going clearly the wage bill is way way too high and should have been reduced a long time ago. Rank incompetence by those that signed players onto contracts paying wages only bettered by Celtic. That is just crazy when you consider what league Rangers are playing in. The thing is it won't change so even more incompetence then for letting it continue.

Personally, and I remember back to when Gers fans were moving to out Murray from Rangers and I did remember telling a Gers fan they were making a huge mistake. It was their movement that put Rangers where they are now. At least with Murray there was a degree of financial stability.

The same Murray that at one point at the club £80M in debt and facing a potential £150M tax bill? Aye, very good. Murray was the catalyst that set us on the path to where we are now.

[bruce778]

Wherever else the money is going clearly the wage bill is way way too high and should have been reduced a long time ago. Rank incompetence by those that signed players onto contracts paying wages only bettered by Celtic. That is just crazy when you consider what league Rangers are playing in. The thing is it won't change so even more incompetence then for letting it continue.

Personally, and I remember back to when Gers fans were moving to out Murray from Rangers and I did remember telling a Gers fan they were making a huge mistake. It was their movement that put Rangers where they are now. At least with Murray there was a degree of financial stability.

The fans had absolutely nothing to do with Murray's decision to sell rangers. Lloyds and Murray international metals' massive debts had everything to do with it.

Also, rangers percentage of playing staff wage to turnover ratio is actually pretty healthy so, while I agree that players have been paid too much, this is not the main cause of the financial problems.

I am not convinced that because Ashley and whyte were at the same charity do that they are in cahoots, but it's not impossible I suppose.

[Caledonian Craig]

Oh excuse me but to me things started going tits up a year or two after Murray left.

Anyway I am still waiting to hear why Rangers wage bill is so astronomical when the club is skint.That is incompetence of the highest order and even worse when you consider how well-documented the club's financial plight has been made.

When you are skint you draw your belt right in but RFC have ignored that rule.

[Caledonian Craig]

Bruce only Celtic have a higher wage bill in Scotland and their players play in the top flight and Europe. It is criminal Gers wage bill is so high.

[bruce778]

Bruce only Celtic have a higher wage bill in Scotland and their players play in the top flight and Europe. It is criminal Gers wage bill is so high.

Yes but last I heard rangers wages (playing staff) to turnover was around 45%, which is much better than most Scottish clubs. It's not the major cause of the financial problems although I think wages may have gone up since that article below.

"While McCoists squad cost £7.8m, that is less than half the total wage bill for the club, with overall staff costs down to £17.9m from £30m last year."

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/mobile/rangers/mccoist-we-are-now-starting-to-motor-137952n.22305035

Ally said (probably a pinch of salt required) in this article that the ratio was 28%.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2618277/Rangers-players-believe-earn-according-Kevin-Kyle.html

Edited October 29, 2014 by bruce778

[Toepoke]

to me things started going tits up a year or two after Murray left.

I'd say he could see the writing was on the wall and bailed...

[bruce778]

I'd say he could see the writing was on the wall and bailed...

Lloyds told him to sell because they (and Murray) were worried he would be left holding the baby re the big tax case.

[EddardStark]

there are a few high earners out of contract and the end of this season. Also 13 players left in summer either on loan or released. Only 5 came in and all but 1 have a one year deal. The issues that have slaughtered us are the non playing costs, added to this is the 15000 less season tickets.

Edited October 29, 2014 by EddardStark

[Redz]

15000 walking away.........