Haggis_trap Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) So there I was giving the wee-bairn his milk before bed. Switched onto the BBC parliament channel and watched the live proceedings - which happened to be a debate on the Scotland bill..... The SNP tabled amendment 58 - "The Scottish parliament could only be abolished by the Scottish parliament itself following a referendum of the Scottish people". In a democratic world this seems entirely fair ?Amazingly Westminster MPs, before my very eyes, just voted against this amendment! The result was (approx) 320 to 280. Interestingly it was a very clear case of UK MPs voting on Scottish affairs !?Will this news even reach the papers tomorrow ?Utterly scandalous. Amendment 58 is on page 2 here. Though I cant (currently) find any links to the vote result online.... http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2015-2016/0003/amend/pbc031206m.pdf Edited June 15, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Surprised it didn't pass; but yeah, a shocking decision. I doubt it will get much attention though. If the SNP can't get that through then we've FA chance of FFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Made me angry watching it live It is events like this that make me realise how important web sites like Wings Over Scotland / Bella Calledonia <etc> are.....My guess is that this vote won't make the headlines of any Scottish newspaper ? So we depends on such blogs to get the "news" out to the man on the street (i,e man on the web) Edited June 15, 2015 by Haggis_trap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-broken-promise/#more-72052 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The very first line of the Vow printed on the front page of the Record is now broken. Westminster can dissolve the Scottish parliament any time it wants to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) BBC 10 oclock news seems to have completely buried it. There is more on Sudan, fracking, ISIS, jeb bush, magna carta, anything but the fault lines of Blighty cracking under Westminster Newsnight apparently about the pope and climate change, the former aussie premier, ISIS, and philae must be on only the news where you are Edited June 15, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 No Human rights veto. Awaiting whether UK parliament can interfere in devolved matters.... My guess it will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) So am I right to believe my ears that that Carmichael has said the SNP amendments - not the watered down Scotland Bill - are not in the spirit of the referendum? Whiie Mundell says the referendum promises have been fulfilled, and that Gordon Brown never said anything about home rule or federalism?? Where are the journalists to challenge these guys? And what are Labour doing in all this? Ian Murray has become a sort of 'depute Tory' secretary of state. Seems more than ever that the 3 unionist MPs are more or less interchangeable. Edited June 15, 2015 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 BBC reporting a "dramatic U turn" by Cameron - but it's on the date of the EU referendum. No comment yet on the three amigos' parties voting down anything to do with the Vow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbers Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I see Alan never speaks to us anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Nowhere on the news whatsoever. No journalistic challenges whatsoever (either on the vote or the broken pledge). An utter disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I see Alan never speaks to us anymore! would not be surprised to find out Alan was a paid employee of the Labour machine. He did let slip once that he did an internship in Washington, kind of fits the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Something that really annoys me about this vote is that I think *all* Scottish MPs voted for the amendment ? Fundamentally the Tories voted to ensure the hypothetical power to dissolve the Scottish parliament remains with Westminster.Rather than put it in the hands of Holyrood and the Scottish electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Something that really annoys me about this vote is that I think *all* Scottish MPs voted for the amendment ? Fundamentally the Tories voted to ensure the hypothetical power to dissolve the Scottish parliament remains with Westminster. Rather than put it in the hands of Holyrood and the Scottish electorate. Westminster knows best. Pheasant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bob Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah, haven't been able to find the results of the vote from a casual browse. I want to know who the good guys are - obviously more folk voted for it than just Scottish MPs. Also would like to know how the Three Amigos voted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPROAR Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 this is the Tories driving nails into the Labour coffin in Scotland. They know Brown made the vow and he will be blamed for breaking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I see Alan never speaks to us anymore! Don't worry, he's alive and well and saying plenty on the Partick Thistle fans forum. Something that really annoys me about this vote is that I think *all* Scottish MPs voted for the amendment ? Fundamentally the Tories voted to ensure the hypothetical power to dissolve the Scottish parliament remains with Westminster. Rather than put it in the hands of Holyrood and the Scottish electorate. I can understand FFA being voted down but I can't think what they felt they had lose by backing amendment 58. I guess they were just loathe to give up their wee bit of power over Holyrood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah, haven't been able to find the results of the vote from a casual browse. I want to know who the good guys are - obviously more folk voted for it than just Scottish MPs. Also would like to know how the Three Amigos voted. Aye, that would be interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if they abstained. I have heard Dennis Skinner voted with the SNP in favour of FFA; fair play to him for that. this is the Tories driving nails into the Labour coffin in Scotland. They know Brown made the vow and he will be blamed for breaking it. Except it doesn't exactly seem to be making waves in the news at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Laud Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Very surprised at the vote. More surprising though is if you had asked me if i would be watching the parliment channel for a couple of hours most nights of the week since the general election i would have said you are mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Very surprised at the vote. More surprising though is if you had asked me if i would be watching the parliment channel for a couple of hours most nights of the week since the general election i would have said you are mad. It's only when you start to watch these things you realise how little we (normally) know or get to hear It's been pretty astonishing how little there is reported on who actually voted for what - in this the "information age" (or "open democracy"as jim hacker would have it?) it seems to take hours or days to track down who represented which way you'd liek a vote to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So there I was giving the wee-bairn his milk before bed. Switched onto the BBC parliament channel and watched the live proceedings - which happened to be a debate on the Scotland bill..... The SNP tabled amendment 58 - "The Scottish parliament could only be abolished by the Scottish parliament itself following a referendum of the Scottish people". In a democratic world this seems entirely fair ? Amazingly Westminster MPs, before my very eyes, just voted against this amendment! The result was (approx) 320 to 280. Interestingly it was a very clear case of UK MPs voting on Scottish affairs !? Will this news even reach the papers tomorrow ? Utterly scandalous. Amendment 58 is on page 2 here. Though I cant (currently) find any links to the vote result online.... http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2015-2016/0003/amend/pbc031206m.pdf So, what's this reference to the parliament being "permanent"? http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2015-2016/0003/cbill_2015-20160003_en_2.htm#pt1-pb1-l1g1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks for nothing, BBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I'm wondering why the SNP aren't kicking up merry hell about this. Regardless of the Union bias of the BBC, Sturgeon has a fair bit of clout these days. If she wanted this to be headline news in Scotland, then it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis_trap Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 ^ I think you need to pick your battles ?Rather than raise hell at any opportunity ? Fundamentally the Scottish parliament is not going to be dissolved at the moment. So best let this pass ? Rather than highlight that Westminster has chosen to hold the theoretical power. Plus any legislation binding future governments is somewhat meaningless (as it can always be revoked). However there is a point of principal here. UKIP, for example, did have a policy to get rid of Holyrood and the devolved parliaments. It is not right that rUK *could* take the decision to dissolve the Scottish parliament against our will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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