Toepoke Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 As much as I enjoyed Barry Hearn ruffling the SFA/SPFL beaks, he didn't seem to offer many ideas other than getting swallied at the grounds. What suggestions to radically improve our game can we come up with. I'll start the ball rolling - better indoor facilities. And I'd go as far as to say we should have at least one indoor stadium, possibly with a 5-10,000 seating capacity. Throughout the winter months a couple of league matches every week could be played there, I think it could make for a special event for the fans and could pull in more punters than usual.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I'll start the ball rolling - better indoor facilities. And I'd go as far as to say we should have at least one indoor stadium, possibly with a 5-10,000 seating capacity. Throughout the winter months a couple of league matches every week could be played there, I think it could make for a special event for the fans and could pull in more punters than usual.... I wonder if the cost of such a thing would be prohibitive, and who's home game would it be? Not to piss on your chips though, as I'm sure all the best ideas will meet some resistance. I'll go for pricing, £15 for an adult £5 for kids at all games for home and away fans. If crowds don't go up as a result, the clubs will lose money, but I genuinely believe a consistent lower price would see a small increase in home fans, and away fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Kids prices should be free or a token £1 and enough of this pish about charging away fans the higher prices. Dunno if it would actually make much difference or not but it's time to bring standing back. I'd rip out all the seats in the east stand at Fir Park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 I wonder if the cost of such a thing would be prohibitive, and who's home game would it be? Not to piss on your chips though, as I'm sure all the best ideas will meet some resistance. It would certainly require a fair whack of investment from government/ associations / corporate sponsors etc. But if we're going to take positive steps into the future then we'll need a certain amount of thinking big. As for the home team, take it in turns. Should be easy enough to work out pro-rata... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardStark Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 wage cap on clubs. Not sure if this how this could be enforced though.It would force clubs to develop their homegrown talent a lot more. Not sure what model of wage cap you would use though. Rugby League has one applied to the total wage bill of the club I think. You could have an outflow of high earners but I think the scare stories are akin to bankers leaving the City if their bonuses are slashed. There ain't enough jobs for all of these bankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I wonder if the cost of such a thing would be prohibitive, and who's home game would it be? Not to piss on your chips though, as I'm sure all the best ideas will meet some resistance. I'll go for pricing, £15 for an adult £5 for kids at all games for home and away fans. If crowds don't go up as a result, the clubs will lose money, but I genuinely believe a consistent lower price would see a small increase in home fans, and away fans. Currently £12 and free at Forthbank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I wonder if the cost of such a thing would be prohibitive, and who's home game would it be? Not to piss on your chips though, as I'm sure all the best ideas will meet some resistance. I'll go for pricing, £15 for an adult £5 for kids at all games for home and away fans. If crowds don't go up as a result, the clubs will lose money, but I genuinely believe a consistent lower price would see a small increase in home fans, and away fans. Crowds won't go up by the amount required for clubs to receive the same money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 wage cap on clubs. Not sure if this how this could be enforced though.It would force clubs to develop their homegrown talent a lot more. Not sure what model of wage cap you would use though. Rugby League has one applied to the total wage bill of the club I think. You could have an outflow of high earners but I think the scare stories are akin to bankers leaving the City if their bonuses are slashed. There ain't enough jobs for all of these bankers. This has to be done. On the indoor stadium, I think if the money was available we'd be better served spending the money on more facilities like Toryglen across the country rather the professional game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimstroma Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Summer football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ANDYP Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Summer football, cut prices. kids get in free, and 2 leagues instead of 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 bigger top league, 18 teams.... playing twice... Lower Prices ,and/ or kids free, Lower prices will bring bigger crowds, Scotland u 21's at st Mirren park 5 quid for adults 1 pound for kids, 8- 10000 were there... simples... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I don't think cutting prices will really help. Is paying £5 less really going to make someone go to a game they weren't otherwise going to? The flip side of £5 less from every fan (with no real correlation to increased attendance) is that it will hurt the clubs even more. Our clubs need our money but sadly most are only beginning to see this in the last few years. Rather than cut prices, the clubs need to focus on customer satisfaction and give people more for what they are currently paying. For off the field experience, clubs could open stadiums up earlier with more and better food options along with booze at the games (the latter being before and after the game and for home fans only). More club interaction with the community. For on the field experience - there has to be competition and some freshening up. Two team dominance for the last 20 years has pretty much killed the game for all but two sets of fans. Even money distribution, a wage cap or generally just less SFA bias. Playing each other 4 times a season doesn't help either. Larger leagues are required (and probably just 2) - teams play each other once home and away. Each game therefore has unique meaning. I'm hugely against summer football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I don't think cutting prices will really help. Is paying £5 less really going to make someone go to a game they weren't otherwise going to? The flip side of £5 less from every fan (with no real correlation to increased attendance) is that it will hurt the clubs even more. Our clubs need our money but sadly most are only beginning to see this in the last few years. Rather than cut prices, the clubs need to focus on customer satisfaction and give people more for what they are currently paying. For off the field experience, clubs could open stadiums up earlier with more and better food options along with booze at the games (the latter being before and after the game and for home fans only). More club interaction with the community. For on the field experience - there has to be competition and some freshening up. Two team dominance for the last 20 years has pretty much killed the game for all but two sets of fans. Even money distribution, a wage cap or generally just less SFA bias. Playing each other 4 times a season doesn't help either. Larger leagues are required (and probably just 2) - teams play each other once home and away. Each game therefore has unique meaning. I'm hugely against summer football. I have 2 kids and for me to go to a game it is over 30 quid, so I don't go, if it was 15- 20 for me and free or a pound for kids we would go much more often so they lose out on my cash lower prices is a basic economic tool to get customers in..... plus the kids will get hooked and they will have them for the future... how can a business survive with 5- 10000 empty seats every week............... Look at how successful the Rugby is with their pricing... Pricing is the no 1 issue with football in Scotland..... They also need to improve the experience, non football bit, a lot, Football lives in a bubble.. Edited December 9, 2014 by stocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Find a way to make it genuinely competitive. Aberdeen's crowds have shot up in the last couple of years when fans realised that we had a chance of winning something and finishing high up the league. Same would happen with Hearts and Hibs, and United eventually, over a longer period of time. Football's a competition. You can throw in all the music, beer, bouncy castles, trumpets, drums, bells and whistles you want, but ultimately if it's not competitive then everyone but the die-hards drifts away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I have 2 kids and for me to go to a game it is over 30 quid, so I don't go, if it was 15- 20 for me and free or a pound for kids we would go much more often so they lose out on my cash lower prices is a basic economic tool to get customers in..... plus the kids will get hooked and they will have them for the future... how can a business survive with 5- 10000 empty seats every week............... Look at how successful the Rugby is with their pricing... Pricing is the no 1 issue with football in Scotland..... They also need to improve the experience, non football bit, a lot, Football lives in a bubble.. So you would go to a game if it was £22 but not £30? Fair enough, not sure all that many people would let c.£8 make their decision for them though. The club maybe losses out on your £22 but my suspision is that they would lose more money if they were to receive £8 less from every other similar combination than they would from the £22's that didn't come because it was £8 too expensive. I appreciate that I've taken some liberty with the figures above, but I don't think the pricing economics in football are quite as basic as you make out. I genuinely believe that on-field competition/freshness and off-field experience far outweigh pricing. Dons crowds have shot up solely due to on-field experince and the club featuring more in the community. They still need to work on off-field experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) I heard the owner of the Braehead ice hockey team on Clyde 1 last night. They seem to be doing really well, attracting decent crowds, but it still costs over 40 quid for a family of 4. It just seems the whole experience is attracting certain people more than the football. For example he said Fife Flyers are pulling in bigger crowds than Raith Rovers! Edited December 9, 2014 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 As said above, the number of folk stopped going to football by £5-£8 is minimal. It's an excuse folk trot out but in reality, most people who say it wouldn't go if it was half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Football is broken in a lot of respects. People have moved away from it over the years as society has changed. It will never attract the massive crowds as before, as people follow a far more diverse range of sports and TV, gaming and other things all have reduced the potential audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Crowds won't go up by the amount required for clubs to receive the same money. Possibly not, but as things stand crowds are slowly dropping on average (Aberdeen are seeing a spike just now I know) while prices continue to rise, there comes a point it becomes unsustainable, or do you charge 1000 folk £80 instead of 4000 at £20? I think a sustained lower price around £15 would encourage more folk along, or folk that do go to go more often. Particularly away fans, we see regularly there are healthy away supports to be had in the right circumstances, these are existing "customers" who are willing to go to games if you make the product attractive. Pricing isn't the only problem, but a lower price might allow you to overlook some of the others. On a tangent from that, making more of an effort to create an enjoyable experience for away fans. They are such a neglected and under valued customer of football clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 On the indoor stadium, I think if the money was available we'd be better served spending the money on more facilities like Toryglen across the country rather the professional game. 100% agree, but stick some seats in a couple of them while we're at it. If a wee country like Norway can have a facility like this surely we could have at the least a more modest version:- Imagine a wild howling day like today, but several thousand fans comfortably indoors, roaring noise under the roof and enjoying a couple of beers in the process. Would be a really memorable day/night out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Possibly not, but as things stand crowds are slowly dropping on average (Aberdeen are seeing a spike just now I know) while prices continue to rise, there comes a point it becomes unsustainable, or do you charge 1000 folk £80 instead of 4000 at £20? I think a sustained lower price around £15 would encourage more folk along, or folk that do go to go more often. Particularly away fans, we see regularly there are healthy away supports to be had in the right circumstances, these are existing "customers" who are willing to go to games if you make the product attractive. Pricing isn't the only problem, but a lower price might allow you to overlook some of the others. On a tangent from that, making more of an effort to create an enjoyable experience for away fans. They are such a neglected and under valued customer of football clubs. Every initiative my club has had to reduce prices has resulted in little change to the crowd number and the club losing money. Yet now we have a decent, competitive team our crowds are up, despite rises in ticket prices. £3 here and there isn't going to make a difference. You can get in the merkland family stand at Aberdeen for £20. That's not that expensive IMO. I doubt making it £15 will see another 25% of folk attend. I agree that pricing can play a part in increasing attendances but folk who think decreasing prices by 20% will increase attendances by 20% are kidding themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Every initiative my club has had to reduce prices has resulted in little change to the crowd number and the club losing money. I don't disagree with any of that, more competition would definitely encourage more folk along. What I would say though is that Aberdeen have presumably like John Boyle did at Motherwell tried all sorts to get folk through the turnstiles, but they are all one offs. A shite game against Inverness or st johnstone where they knock a fiver off the price, market it poorly, get the same 4000 folk in and then say it didn't work and put the price back up the next week. As you know, I don't want to pay more than £20 for an SPFL game. Occasionally I'll go above that if it's a game I really want to go to, but there's several games over the last couple of seasons I've thought about going to, looked at the price and decided against it. It seems petty over £3 that I'd spend on a pie or a pint or whatever, but it's the value I put on a visit to Rugby park for example. £27 for a single adult ticket behind the goal at fir park on Saturday! Did you see how many empty seats there were behind that goal? (Only occupants would be family season ticket holders) £20 in the east stand which was pretty full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 ok, you are making me sound like a miserable Phukkker, but 32 quid for 1.5 hours of entertainment is not worth it for me and my kids, the pictures for example is 7.50 for the same time. soft play is 8 quid for more time, this is some of the competition. I would go most weeks for 15 quid for me and say ,max ,5 for 2 kids... There comes a point where it is TOO much.. and over 20 quid does it for me. What the clubs don't realise is the add on sales of having kids there, they eat and drink and buy shite,,,, so with proper marketing, proper merchandising they could easy get a fiver from each child and that makes it easy up to the 30 quid you state. look at what you spend at the pictures.... popcorn, juice sweets etc.. Fitba doesnae do that and cannae see that... they live in a bubble.... I repeat PRICE is a major issue.. The empty seats prove that.... Competition is needed and is healthy and so is less familiarity, playing a team once at home and once away keeps it interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 100% agree, but stick some seats in a couple of them while we're at it. If a wee country like Norway can have a facility like this surely we could have at the least a more modest version:- Imagine a wild howling day like today, but several thousand fans comfortably indoors, roaring noise under the roof and enjoying a couple of beers in the process. Would be a really memorable day/night out... Oil fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The 18 team top league must have proper relegation to make it work. Bottom 3 relegated 4th bottom involved in play offs. Sky would bite our hand off to show summer football (as long as someone could broker a decent deal for Scottish clubs - not confident on that tho) but they would sadly probably insist on 4 old firm games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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