Rossy Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Anyone watching this ? A very interesting programme. A very interesting character was Churchill. Born into (and lived) a life of silver-spooned privilege.....as his family do to this day. A relative failure politically and militarily. Revered as a hero because of his belligerence in the 2nd world war, it's easy to forget that he was booted out of office in 1946 because people didn't trust him with economics. As I said, interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Something very strange I can remember as a wee boy watching Churchill's funeral on TV but it was 2 years before i was born Can only put it down to it being repeated years later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Something very strange I can remember as a wee boy watching Churchill's funeral on TV but it was 2 years before i was born Can only put it down to it being repeated years later You're thinking of Princess Diana... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My old man blamed Labour's 1946 victory on the reds getting among the troops during the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I find it fascinating how Churchill is portrayed as 'the greatest Briton' (copyright BBC). He was the Home Secretary who sent the troops into south Wales to deal with striking miners, and he was the 1st Lord of the Admiralty who's impatience and incompetence was partly responsible for the Gallipoli fiasco. As I said, due to his live of privilege, he was often promoted to positions that he was unsuitable for. He was, of course, a perfect leader of the country in the 2nd world war. But history is a strange thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My old man blamed Labour's 1946 victory on the reds getting among the troops during the war. There's probably a lot more to it than that but people of all types working together across numerous barriers made a big difference (you could say it was classes mixing more than ever before and many getting confidence in their abilities for the first time). One of Labour's slogans was "Cheer Churchill, vote Labour". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My old man blamed Labour's 1946 victory on the reds getting among the troops during the war.Was reading about ex Home Secretary who was a tank commander during ww2All his crew were labour voters I reckon without Churchill we,d all be sprechen Zie Deutsch Was quite a groundswell of opinion to capitulate Politicians and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My grandparents lived in Gorebridge, and grandfather worked in pits. Churchill was hated with a vengeance because of his actions against the miners during the strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Mind an ex-colleague saying his uncles fought in the Sahara, Churchill came for a visit and was kept apart from the troops for fear he might get done in. These guys would have gladly done it apparently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaldo87 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My knowledge of Churchill was purely based on high school history and the second world war. So finding out everything else was a bit of an eye opener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My grandparents lived in Gorebridge, and grandfather worked in pits. Churchill was hated with a vengeance because of his actions against the miners during the strike. Yes, my gran lived nearby in Dalkeith and despised him (and the royals). Mainly due to his refusing to allow the Poles in the victory parade (my grandad was Polish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peever1745 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 One of my earliest memories is sitting with family watching his funeral on tv,I was only 3 at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannannan Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 A lot of great or so called great,politicians were great speechmakers.Hitler,Churchill,JFK,Gahndi.Important asset for a politician,Sorry forgot Jim Murphy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 The Daily Heil going mental today about the revelation in the programme that dock workers along the Thames hated Churchill, and were 'made' to dip their cranes as his coffin passed along the river. That's the BBC gone from being saviours of the Union back to commie-loving pinkos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yes, my gran lived nearby in Dalkeith and despised him (and the royals). Mainly due to his refusing to allow the Poles in the victory parade (my grandad was Polish).My family lived in and still does Dalkeith. They come from a mining background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 the letters page in the herald has a good letter from a Lewis guy and the story of how he left 1000's of Highlanders to their death/capture at Dunkirk,, i will try and paste a copy.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I CAN assure Russell Vallance (Letters, January 27) that the information regarding the 51st Highland Division ( Letters, January 26,)was not based on propaganda from Lord Haw Haw but on testimony by relations and neighbours who had fought at Dunkirk. As a youngster in Lewis I remember seamen coming home on leave and being quizzed why their brothers and cousins serving with the 51st had been abandoned at St Valery. With so many Scots serving on the rescue vessels some naval commanders ignored orders and sailed for St Valery to evacuate the Highland Division. However, they were too late and had to abandon their mission due to strong enemy fire from the land and from the air. Two of these ships had many Western islanders in their complements; HMS Laird's Isle and HMS Winchester. Many Western Isles seamen were killed on ships at Dunkirk and others were decorated for bravery: Petty Officer Allan Morrison, took charge of his ship, HMD Jenny MacKintosh, after the skipper was killed and was awarded the DSM "For courage and seamanship in navigating the ship to safety with great skill and daring during a heavy bombing attack". After rescuing many English soldiers he must have been appalled when he learned the 51st had to be abandoned as two of his brothers were serving with the division: they spent five years in German prison camps. The 51st were the victims of questionable military and political manoeuvres by Churchill and the French Government - 110,000 French soldiers were evacuate,d but not the Scots. Many of the Scottish soldiers blamed Churchill and felt he had abandoned them to spite the people of Dundee who had not voted for him when he stood as an MP for that city. Lacking air cover, anti-tank weapons, armour and modern communications the Highland Division was doomed from the start. Many Scots died in German prison camps and on the horrendous march west in 1945 ahead of the advancing Russians. The final insult to the 51st prisoners was that they had been totally forgotten by the War Office, resulting in many not even receiving their war campaign medals. It is a sad reflection on war historians that the Scots know little of the heroic contribution played by the Highland Division in the success of Dunkirk. Scots should read their local newspapers for June, July and August, 1940, to view the long lists of their kith and kin missing and killed. The rest of Britain was celebrating Dunkirk but the Scots were mourning their dead and missing at St Valery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Churchill, what a . What a laugh this drunken phanny is held up as a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 another letter from a few days ago.. CHURCHILL WAS HATED BY THE SCOTS WINSTON Churchill was undoubtedly a great war leader ("Myth of reckless egoist who was last of the imperialists", The Herald, January 21, and Letters, January 22 & 23). However, he was detested by many Scots, as he was blamed for deliberately abandoning the 51st Highland Division in France in 1940. As a result around 12,000 Scots serving with the Division were killed or became German prisoners. With no air cover, few tanks and little ammunition the Scots were ordered to face the might of the German army and delay their advance. Thousands of Scots were serving on ships at Dunkirk and saved thousands of English soldiers. When the order to abandon the 51st was received some naval officers were scared the Scottish seamen would mutiny. The deliberate abandonment of the 51st has been stated to be the most treacherous act by the Allies during the Second World War. Peter Scott, the naturalist, was a naval officer at Dunkirk and wrote that abandoning the Highland Division in France was one of the darkest days of his life. While the rest of Britain was celebrating Dunkirk, in Scotland it was gloom as families awaited news of fathers, sons and brothers missing in France. Churchill's abandonment of the 51st is never mentioned in books by war historians except by Saul David. Churchill was responsible for two major disasters in the Frst World War, Galipolli and the Defence of Antwerp. The abandonment of the 51st reminds one of the Seven Years War report in the Edinburgh Courant, July 18: "Were not Highlanders put upon every enterprise where nothing was to be got but broken bones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Laud Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 What about the ship that was torpedoed off the west coast of Scotland killing hundreds.churchill kept it a secret from the public so as not to keep morale down. Sorry im sure someone knows the name of the ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My knowledge of the war is very limited but the stuff about Churchill and the 51st just makes me angry. A sheer disregard for Scotland and its people. Some things never change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibble Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 A War Office minute of 12 May 1919 in which Winston Churchill argued: "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. “It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. “The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.” Maybe he thought the Scots were an 'uncivilised tribe’. He may have let us off with just the 'inconvenience' type of gas – he was a kindly soul, after all. (Wanted the army given permission to shoot strikers in ’26.) My family in Edinburgh despised him. And there were tales that many rank and file in the Army in North Africa would have gladly murdered him had he ventured there on one of his morale-boosting trips. A twat!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 From the Guardian another less than glorious incident: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Edited January 29, 2015 by Toepoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Interesting article on the beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29701767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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