Tartan Monkey Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Thanks Tartan Monkey for the insight into things, very helpful and very decent of you sharing your views/opinions on things with us. Despite what they said at the press conference and with the pilot trying to break the door down a fair amount of those passengers must have known what was happening, it's awful to comprehend but the whole "didn't realise till the last second" I find hard to believe. With regards to the co pilot I'm surprised psychological tests aren't conducted at some stage of a pilots career. I guess this is a cost cutting measure potentially? Thought that plus the two people in the cabin would be standard practice and surprised to realise this was not the case with some airlines. I think psycometric tests will become mandatory. I've done several over the years, indeed I've done 3 at my current airline. Other companies I've worked for I didn't do any. I don't think you can just do them once, obviously life events come along and someone may not have the same mental state now as they had 10 years ago. I don't mind doing it, if it reduces the chances of this kind of thing happening then it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I've always thought that trying to rationalise suicide is difficult as its a totally irrational act. Although if facing painful terminal illness then maybe more rational. We only have rumours of depression, maybe some more deep rooted problems, schizophrenia for example. Heard the father of an American victim speak tonight about the parents of the pilot and was so moved by his compassion at such a dreadful time for him. As an aside, I once freaked out on a flight from Istanbul to Tel Aviv as I thought my head was going to explode. I've been told I was very polite but very forceful in my insistence of getting off the plane as I didn't want all the blood and flesh to go over the other passengers. I was at the back door trying my hardest to reach it and open it, air hostesses were great but they eventually got one of the pilots out to me. He eventually persuaded me to go back to my seat, people on either side held polystyrene cups with hot pads at the bottom against my ears and I had to suck my thumb till we landed. Thank goodness I was too out of it to realise how bad that look was. Anyway everyone got off the plane, pal and I were asked to wait, stewardesses sat with me, I was greeting like mad, as still sore and realisation of what I'd done was starting to dawn on me. Pilots came out and were as great as the stewardesses, walked off plane with me and took me through airport. In fairness they may have just been making sure I left the building. Anyway, this adds hee haw to the debate on here except to say I have the upmost respect for all airline workers. Why did you believe your head was going to explode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddersfield Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 TM; really interesting reading this. If you have time I have a question about a pilot's approach & attitude to turbulence. I've been on a few flights, especially over the Pyrenees where the captain has advised that there was clear air turbulence & it might be bumpy. I know that it isn't going to bring the plane down but do you have official or unofficial thresholds around avoiding it? Would you ever ask for anything (increased altitude/different route for example) for the comfort of passengers or do you just take a view that you're going to get bounced around a bit & go straight into it? On a more facetious note, when are they going to do something about the flight deck public address systems? I can hear perfectly well when they are trying to flog me the latest must have from Christian Dior but can never hear the really interesting stuff about the flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I'm sure it wasnae very funny at the time but.......... Resident tamb psychologist To go back to the automated planes subject. Whoever said that the ensemble of technology maybe wasn't there yet is probably right. But the AI tech is definitely ready and the rate of failure isn't as high as it is when a human is involved. But it's true that the passengers probably do need to have a human in the front of the plane for psychological reasons. I actually once saw a design for a future plane where the pilot was put somewhere else in the plane. Absolutely no reason why he needs to be at the front now. That way you can make the front more aerodynamic and hence more economical. Although a cynic might say you leave the front open for the super first class saudi princes and the like... The principal thing that stops most of these kind of innovations isn't the maturity of the technology, it's the pilot unions. Pilots are only slightly above factory workers when it comes to getting replaced by technology/robots so the unions are (understandably) pretty militant. EDIT: That future plane design http://flightclub.jalopnik.com/airbus-wants-to-take-the-cockpit-out-of-the-cockpit-of-1598171449 Edited March 28, 2015 by thewelk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Turns out he wasnt just depressed http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32098578 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindimoo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Turns out he wasnt just depressed http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32098578 If at allFebruary 2015: Undergoes diagnosis at Duesseldorf University Clinic for an unspecified illness; clinic has clarified the illness was not depression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Mystery solved. The Sun, once again, has cracked it. It was those pesky gay demons who were to blame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddybuc16 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 How is it even justifiable that they can print that? Even for the sun that is low. We are trying to make sense of this and what it means to all of us with regards to flying. But as usual the sun are going down the usual route of accusations based on people in society that they hate. Tommorows headline He was a peado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnie x Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 That's disgraceful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 There are no air capsules on an aeroplane. Air conditioning an pressurisation is actives by cold air entering the engine. It's then compressed and heated (known as bleed air) and is taken to the air conditioning packs. Inside the pack a heat exchanger cools the air back down. Finally it is gently heated to achieve the desired temperature on the cabin. Most large passenger aeroplanes have 2 or more a/c packs. Its true that filters are not as badly damaged as they were during the smoking days, but smoking on board was stopped for safety, not economic reasons. Thanks TM. I thought it was for safety reasons but I wondered if they were trying to save on what they use now and that's what this experiment was trying to prove, I'll be honest I didn't take too much of the report in as I was mainly thinking, " where can I sign up to experiments where I get vodka for free?" When I told my niece and nephew people used to smoke on planes they thought I was kidding them on. I've not even mentioned smoking during Disney pictures at cinema yet! Why did you believe your head was going to explode? I am incredibly intelligent and have a gigantic brain and sometimes it swells at high altitude. Either that or it was something to do with my ears not popping and pressure building up. It happened on another flight, luckily I managed to stay seated and didn't freak out although the guy sitting next to me asked to be moved. There was a tremendous amount of tears, snotters ( me not him) and wailing (him not me). I now get my ears syringed before I fly and sook sweeties like a mad woman on take off and landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 If at all February 2015: Undergoes diagnosis at Duesseldorf University Clinic for an unspecified illness; clinic has clarified the illness was not depression Yip Appears he was psychotic and using the depression angle to hide it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Replay Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Mystery solved. The Sun, once again, has cracked it. It was those pesky gay demons who were to blame... How do they know his demons were gays? Were they well groomed? Big fans of Erasure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 ex gf claims he said he would do something that would be 'remembered' Sun headline is predictably ridiculous. We'll never know what was going through the guys mind. The blaming depression angle isn't good. No idea how the families get over something like this. I think an accident would be 'easier' to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Monkey Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 TM; really interesting reading this. If you have time I have a question about a pilot's approach & attitude to turbulence. I've been on a few flights, especially over the Pyrenees where the captain has advised that there was clear air turbulence & it might be bumpy. I know that it isn't going to bring the plane down but do you have official or unofficial thresholds around avoiding it? Would you ever ask for anything (increased altitude/different route for example) for the comfort of passengers or do you just take a view that you're going to get bounced around a bit & go straight into it? On a more facetious note, when are they going to do something about the flight deck public address systems? I can hear perfectly well when they are trying to flog me the latest must have from Christian Dior but can never hear the really interesting stuff about the flight. We tend to avoid anything predicting severe turbulence. It's difficult to define a threshold as such, partly in that some forms of turbulence are difficult to forecast. Some is associated with strong winds such as a jet stream over high terrain, as in the Pyrenees or the Alps. As its "clear air" turbulence we can't see it either on our weather radar or out the window. This obviously makes it much more tricky to avoid. In this case we rely on the weather forecasts en route, experience and our knowledge of met phenomena and on a measure on our flight plan called the shear rate. This is a ratio of changing temperature over a given altitude. So a 2 on the flight plan is faily benign, a 10 is probably moderate to severe turbulence. Sometimes we have a 3 predicted and encounter moderate turbulence, sometimes with a 10 we get nothing. Weather is hard to predict and is a dynamic thing, so really it's a best guess. As for what we do about it. Well if it's associated with precipitation such as a thunderstorm we will fly around it and avoid. Sometimes that means being 100 miles off track (as was the case last night) to avoid the storm. As you suggest we can change level by climbing or descending. Climbing can send us into clear air above any clouds, however it also reduces our aerodynamic margin. At high levels and high weights there is very little margin between stall speed and overspeed. This margin narrows as we climb and is, rather ominously known in aerodynamic terms as "coffin corner". So in unstable, turbulent air, climbing isn't always the best option. Sometimes we have to just sit with the turbulence and plough on through, but we certainly do all we can to avoid it. It's no fun for us either I can assure you. So on the whole we will avoid turbulence if we can, however it may not always be possible. We will always avoid thunder storms as they can seriously impact the performance of the aeroplane, and can in fact cause structural damage and even break up of the aeroplane. So when we make that PA welcoming you all on board and suggest you keep your seatbelt fastened even when the sign is off........ We really do mean it! As for the PA volume, it really depends on who is speaking on it. Sometimes the pilots are using their headset and the mic might not be picking everything up. A hand mic tends to work better and that's what the cabin crew use which is why you always hear the duty free goodies. TM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The ex-girlfriend is allegedly having his child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flure Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 David Alexander @dakeay Daily Mail says no-one with depression should be allowed to pilot. Makes a change from it saying that everyone with depression is fit for work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As you suggest we can change level by climbing or descending. Climbing can send us into clear air above any clouds, however it also reduces our aerodynamic margin. At high levels and high weights there is very little margin between stall speed and overspeed. This margin narrows as we climb and is, rather ominously known in aerodynamic terms as "coffin corner". So in unstable, turbulent air, climbing isn't always the best option. Sometimes we have to just sit with the turbulence and plough on through, but we certainly do all we can to avoid it. It's no fun for us either I can assure you. KInda wish I hadn't read this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyMac Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 it's being reported now that he also had a detached retina as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 it's being reported now that he also had a detached retina as well. Aye, saw that. He thought he was going blind. Unbelievable. WTF were Lüfthansa playing at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobydoo Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 They didn't know, he hid it from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Monkey Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) KInda wish I hadn't read this. ? Edited March 30, 2015 by Tartan Monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 The ex-girlfriend is allegedly having his child. were the gay demons involved in this immaculate conception? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Aye, saw that. He thought he was going blind. Unbelievable. WTF were Lüfthansa playing at? clearly possessed by gay demons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 They didn't know, he hid it from them. Surely they have mandatory regular eye tests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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