New Labour Leader

[Flora MaDonald]

How many times did he use his new buzzword - "Patriotism"? He seems to love that word all of a sudden.

Maybe he should learn the meaning of another word - Irony.

He's just a phuqqing arse. More worryingly though, if that's the start of the State Broadcaster love-in, we're in for a rough ride. Alex said to me yesterday, he was their preferred man.

[Scunnered]

the SNP (and other lefty parties)

FFS

[Ally Bongo]

FFS

?

The SNP are unequivocally a Centre Left party

The SSP are unequivocally a Far Left party

The Green party are somewhere between the two

The Labour party are a Centre party

The Tory party are a Centre right party

UKIP are somewhere more right than that

The BNP are a far right party

[Khana Lagur]

FFS

Floor's all yours, fella. Over to you...

[phart]

2 dimensional co-ordinates to describe 4 dimensional actions are never very accurate. To assume the only differences in parties can be measured by running a point along a line is crazy. Especially since the centre point on the line isn't an objective measure.

yeah lets run the blue dot along this line and use it to describe every political party ever, such insight.

However historically any government with so much policy about helping corporations has never been described as being left of centre.

I'm not however going to argue where the point goes on the line for the SNP though in relation to a centre point that moves depending on who places it.

Edited December 14, 2014 by phart

[peever1745]

[Scunnered]

Phart kens

SSP are not far left, they're left.

New Labour are Centre right

Tory are Centre right

SNP are slightly to the right of centre, but if they follow through with their planned budget for Holyrood then they'll be putting themselves to centre right.

You can't, put business before services, vote down progressive bills and claim to be centre left I'm afraid.

[Scunnered]

"We have new opportunities to reform public services with partnerships between public sector, the third sector, local businesses and communities".

Absolutely terrifying statement from the new deputy leader...

[phart]

There is little difference between the parties, for instance every single party subscribes to central banking and fractional reserve banking. Also to centralisation of government. Both huge factors in how countries are run and there are practically zero choice on the matters.

[FuNsTeR]

Phart kens

SSP are not far left, they're left.

New Labour are Centre right

Tory are Centre right

SNP are slightly to the right of centre, but if they follow through with their planned budget for Holyrood then they'll be putting themselves to centre right.

You can't, put business before services, vote down progressive bills and claim to be centre left I'm afraid.

and just how do you pay for those services go further into debt reducing corporation tax is a move to induce companies to INVEST and CREATE JOBS in Scotland

what you want is borderline communism ... I think you will find the Snp have done a great deal to protect services and protect the poorest in our society ... what exactly did labour do .... they brung in Privatisation to the NHS, they stole (State theft) of £118 billion of public and private sector pensions and do not get me started on their de regulation of Banks and the subsequent bail outs

[Scunnered]

I never mentioned reducing corp tax... Your party are reducing public spending by £500m to provide £615m in tax relief for businesses. That's not acceptable.

I don't want communism in the slightest, I just want a party in power who will put people first.

I'm fed up repeating myself, but I shall again. Corporation tax cuts - the working class and the poor get poorer, this is historical provable fact.

[Ally Bongo]

and just how do you pay for those services go further into debt reducing corporation tax is a move to induce companies to INVEST and CREATE JOBS in Scotland

what you want is borderline communism ... I think you will find the Snp have done a great deal to protect services and protect the poorest in our society ... what exactly did labour do .... they brung in Privatisation to the NHS, they stole (State theft) of £118 billion of public and private sector pensions and do not get me started on their de regulation of Banks and the subsequent bail outs

Scunnered will never answer

All he does is go on and on about Corporation tax cuts

Everyone knows that the particular policy is to try and stimulate the economy and create jobs and more money in the treasury helps us invest in public services and pay for welfare

I think Scunnered wants us to be like Greece where everyone and their granny is employed in the public sector and the Government pays for it by running up masses of debt

[Scunnered]

Scunnered will never answer

All he does is go on and on about Corporation tax cuts

Everyone knows that the particular policy is to try and stimulate the economy and create jobs and more money in the treasury helps us invest in public services and pay for welfare

I think Scunnered wants us to be like Greece where everyone and their granny is employed in the public sector and the Government pays for it by running up masses of debt

Show me a country at the SNP's proposed level on Laffers curve whos public debt doesn't increase dramatically after the cut.

It's really like I'm talking to myself at times.

[Scunnered]

"But... But... It will stimulate growth... And all the poor will have jobs and benefit bills will decrease"

Jesus wept

Unless you actually believe the SNP are magicians... Is that it?...

[thorbotnic]

Scunnered will never answer

All he does is go on and on about Corporation tax cuts

Everyone knows that the particular policy is to try and stimulate the economy and create jobs and more money in the treasury helps us invest in public services and pay for welfare

I think Scunnered wants us to be like Greece where everyone and their granny is employed in the public sector and the Government pays for it by running up masses of debt

When other parties propose policies that are known to not work, they deservedly get stick. Why would you give the SNP a free ride?

Edit: Scunnered said it better than me

Edited December 14, 2014 by thorbotnic

[FuNsTeR]

I never mentioned reducing corp tax... Your party are reducing public spending by £500m to provide £615m in tax relief for businesses. That's not acceptable.

I don't want communism in the slightest, I just want a party in power who will put people first.

I'm fed up repeating myself, but I shall again. Corporation tax cuts - the working class and the poor get poorer, this is historical provable fact.

I know that is what you are referring to .... Scotland has had it's budget cut yet again by Westminster and has to do something drastic before the expected £10 billion cut in our block grant .... and like me Ally Bongo knows why we must invest in our economy to stimulate growth .... I don't live in a perfect world unlike you and but I can face the reality of the situation ... councils are already having to make tough choices due to those cuts in our block grant .... both the Blue and Red tories have stated recently they want to reduce the public sector to 1930s levels

[thorbotnic]

I know that is what you are referring to .... Scotland has had it's budget cut yet again by Westminster and has to do something drastic before the expected £10 billion cut in our block grant .... and like me Ally Bongo knows why we must invest in our economy to stimulate growth .... I don't live in a perfect world unlike you and but I can face the reality of the situation ... councils are already having to make tough choices due to those cuts in our block grant .... both the Blue and Red tories have stated recently they want to reduce the public sector to 1930s levels

Nobody has said that.

[FuNsTeR]

Nobody has said that.

yes they have

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/03/autumn-statement-2014-george-osborne-spending-cuts

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/12/referring-1930s-public-spending-wont-help-miliband-here-are-three-charts-will

Edited December 14, 2014 by FuNsTeR

[Khana Lagur]

Show me a country at the SNP's proposed level on Laffers curve whos public debt doesn't increase dramatically after the cut.

It's really like I'm talking to myself at times.

Laffer's curve shares the same flaw in revenue collection as Gaussian does in probability. Neither take account of truly unexpected events. Taking corporation tax as a static entity lends weight to what your saying but it takes no account of a government that might choose to construct their corporation tax in a non-static manner by, for example, linking it to the income tax paid by its employees (for example), rather than just company profit. Maybe the SNP had something such in mind. Who knows?

[giric878]

Och there you go. Another socialist messiah. "I will unite Scotland on Social values" Let's look at the facts. Labour' socialism dosnae work.They have had years and years to rectify homelessness, poverty, unemployment, social housing, capitalist loan sharks, aye banks dressed up there's loads of real issues affecting the people. Why don't they solve the social problems in Scotland? Because it suits them to have them and that's what makes Westminster politics. Create the problems then stand the puppets up to rape the masses. There is no doubt Murphy is a puppet, his shaft is up his erse and Ed has a grip awe it and Tony is licking his lug with all the new labour shite that keeps everyone in a job in London town. Let's keep the people down just tell them there is a problem and am here tae solve it. What Scotland needs is to wipe the slate and start again with something new because there are fukin problems and going over and over the same old ain't solving them.

[Scunnered]

Laffer's curve shares the same flaw in revenue collection as Gaussian does in probability. Neither take account of truly unexpected events. Taking corporation tax as a static entity lends weight to what your saying but it takes no account of a government that might choose to construct their corporation tax in a non-static manner by, for example, linking it to the income tax paid by its employees (for example), rather than just company profit. Maybe the SNP had something such in mind. Who knows?

There was only a flat rate reduction mentioned in the White Paper, and by Salmonds advisor (who condemned it as no more than a gift to capital).

Are we all agreed that SNP are slightly right of centre, moving to right of centre if they pass their draconian Holyrood budget?

Any thoughts on the quote I posted earlier in the thread? Terrifying

[giric878]

Thoughts? Aye Ending London Rule.

[Scunnered]

Thoughts? Aye Ending London Rule.

At any cost? Super!

[giric878]

Cost? Who cares. Did Washington preach about cost? Did the peoples republic of France get a bank loan. Was Burns a Friend of the People to land in a paupers grave. Fuk cost. Ending it means more than pounds and pence. Ending London Rule is the only way for Scotland to change and develop as a Nation with a future.

Cost? Who cares. Did Washington preach about cost? Did the peoples republic of France get a bank loan. Was Burns a Friend of the People to land in a paupers grave. Fuk cost. Ending it means more than pounds and pence. Ending London Rule is the only way for Scotland to change and develop as a Nation witht a future.

Edited December 14, 2014 by giric878

[Khana Lagur]

There was only a flat rate reduction mentioned in the White Paper, and by Salmonds advisor (who condemned it as no more than a gift to capital).

Are we all agreed that SNP are slightly right of centre, moving to right of centre if they pass their draconian Holyrood budget?

Any thoughts on the quote I posted earlier in the thread? Terrifying

Fair enough. I wasn't aware that had been stated so specifically. But my point was more just to show that there are more progressive and genuinely economically rewarding frameworks for corp tax if governments wish to design it that way. Most people pick on corp tax as the poster-child gift to capitalism but subsidies of other descriptions are sometimes far more pernicious IMO.

I've not examined the SNP budget so can't comment on it, but within the restraints of the block grant I wouldn't agree that a specific one-off budget would indelibly mark you out politically as anything in particular.