antidote Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14113416.Glasgow_Labour_councillor_announces_support_for_Scottish_independence/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Given he could have said all of that only 18 months ago when it really mattered, he's a opportunistic, careerist who's only interested in looking after himself. He see's Labour dying and is looking for a way out. It's a start though. Want an MSP or MP next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Its about 14 months too late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Given he could have said all of that only 18 months ago when it really mattered, he's a opportunistic, careerist who's only interested in looking after himself. Maybe he's just changed his mind? Quite a few people have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Given he could have said all of that only 18 months ago when it really mattered, he's a opportunistic, careerist who's only interested in looking after himself. He see's Labour dying and is looking for a way out. It's a start though. Want an MSP or MP next. Kind of sums up my thoughts, if he remains in Labour his integrity will remain intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Kind of sums up my thoughts, if he remains in Labour his integrity will remain intact. Stolen from elsewhere: "You could be right. If so, then what's put him in fear of his own unemployment is the inevitability of Scottish independence." Are these not the type of people we need to convert for Independence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 If he has changed his mind due then fair play to him. He might now see labour as moving away from his views a bit like jim sillers. I suppose it depends on how long before he jumps ship. Instead of belittling no voters we should be educating them as to why Indy is better and dismantling the lies the media are telling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 If he has changed his mind due then fair play to him. He might now see labour as moving away from his views a bit like jim sillers. I suppose it depends on how long before he jumps ship. Instead of belittling no voters we should be educating them as to why Indy is better and dismantling the lies the media are telling Agreed, but there are some knuckle dragging ones, that will never vote YES in a million years, need a good belittling from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So, Mr. Robertson campaigned for a No vote. I could be wrong, but I'm sure the Lords, Tories and British Establishment 'stank' before 18th September 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByronLoon1986 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 So, Mr. Robertson campaigned for a No vote. I could be wrong, but I'm sure the Lords, Tories and British Establishment 'stank' before 18th September 2014. Aye it's took him until now (a year after the referendum) to realise that the British establishment is a corrupt stinking pile of sh*te. Very strange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Aye it's took him until now (a year after the referendum) to realise that the British establishment is a corrupt stinking pile of sh*te. Very strange Said in the ET, at least 4 other Labour councillors voted YES last year. Would you prefer they kept voting no? Better late than never and the more the merrier I say. Of course the sentence I borrowed from elsewhere in my last comment does ring true. Even this is welcome news. http://www.thenational.scot/politics/new-scottish-libertarian-party-set-to-launch-and-call-for-independence.10658 People are beginning to see the writing on the wall and the pressure is mounting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Agreed, but there are some knuckle dragging ones, that will never vote YES in a million years, need a good belittling from time to time. Totally especially certain orange tinted ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Agreed, but there are some knuckle dragging ones, that will never vote YES in a million years, need a good belittling from time to time. Nonsense! Unless it's done completely in private. Far too many nats transfer that attitude over to public forums fully aware that while the "knuckle draggers" are being dressed down, it's completely visible to reasonable people. Edit: Happy new signature Edited December 1, 2015 by Scunnered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Nonsense! Unless it's done completely in private. Far too many nats transfer that attitude over to public forums fully aware that while the "knuckle draggers" are being dressed down, it's completely visible to reasonable people. Edit: Happy new signature Just couldn't resist could you? Fully expecting it I personally witnessed threats and pointy ranting at YES campaigners at their stall in Falkirk. That didn't stop the no vote winning. These people are just not for turning. Damn! I should have kept my old signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Just couldn't resist could you? Fully expecting it I personally witnessed threats and pointy ranting at YES campaigners at their stall in Falkirk. That didn't stop the no vote winning. These people are just not for turning. Damn! I should have kept my old signature. One day you'll realise you're part of the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Given he could have said all of that only 18 months ago when it really mattered, he's a opportunistic, careerist who's only interested in looking after himself. He see's Labour dying and is looking for a way out. It's a start though. Want an MSP or MP next. If there is another referendum I want as many Labour politicians on the YES side as possible. Attitudes like yours wont help to make that happen. They should be made to feel welcome as they move over from the dark side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If there is another referendum I want as many Labour politicians on the YES side as possible. Attitudes like yours wont help to make that happen. They should be made to feel welcome as they move over from the dark side. No they shouldn't. They should be force fed all Bitter Together literature in a dark room in party HQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 No they shouldn't. They should be force fed all Bitter Together literature in a dark room in party HQ. Shusssht min. That's after we win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If there is another referendum I want as many Labour politicians on the YES side as possible. Attitudes like yours wont help to make that happen. They should be made to feel welcome as they move over from the dark side. Absolutely right. What does it matter when and how someone comes to the conclusion that Scotland would be better off governing her own affairs so long as they do. People who voted No but but would now vote Yes are more likely to convince No voters to switch than bitter Yessers. I'd actually go so far as to say that in order to win the next referendum the Labour party would need to be at the very least neutral towards independence or if they wanted to adopt a pro-unionist party line, were comfortable with members campaigning for Yes. IMO, one major problem was that it was all too easy for the unionists to conflate the SNP's vision of what they would like to see an independent Scotland look like - i.e. the White Paper - with arguments over independence itself. It would have been very helpful if there had been a credible mainstream alternative* post-indy view to shift the argument away from SNP policy and what the first few years would look like to the more fundamentals of the argument. *accepting that their currently isn't any credible mainstream alternative to the SNP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 People who voted No but but would now vote Yes are more likely to convince No voters to switch than bitter Yessers. Very, very good point and one that's rarely considered on my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 One day you'll realise you're part of the problem I suppose like communists maintaining a westminster establishment that is predominately right wing. Ah yes I see your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I suppose like communists maintaining a westminster establishment that is predominately right wing. Ah yes I see your point. Ok. I'm kind. I'll paint you a scene: There is a cybernat, let's call him "fanidote", and a Unionist... Let's call him "Alan". Let's say Alan has 300 friends on Facebook, of them 100 aren't too interested in politics but would vote in an independence referendum due to the gravity of the situation. One day Fanidote decides that Alan is a Knuckledragger who deserves to be belittled as he would never vote yes and makes "natty" comments on his Facebook. 100 potential Yes voters have just witnesses Fanidote being a c0ck. Good job Fanitdote! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Ok. I'm kind. I'll paint you a scene: There is a cybernat, let's call him "fanidote", and a Unionist... Let's call him "Alan". Let's say Alan has 300 friends on Facebook, of them 100 aren't too interested in politics but would vote in an independence referendum due to the gravity of the situation. One day Fanidote decides that Alan is a Knuckledragger who deserves to be belittled as he would never vote yes and makes "natty" comments on his Facebook. 100 potential Yes voters have just witnesses Fanidote being a c0ck. Good job Fanitdote! Don't do facebook and I didn't suddenly realise Alan is a knuckledragger, it's a well know fact on here. Now let me paint you a picture. A big elephant is in the room where scummer is claiming that he's an international socialist, but then says he will vote to maintain a right wing establishment ruling over our country. Is this the point where you start calling people names whilst losing the argument? How's that for an oxymoron. Edited December 1, 2015 by antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Don't do facebook and I didn't suddenly realise Alan is a knuckledragger, it's a well know fact on here. Now let me paint you a picture. A big elephant is in the room where scummer is claiming that he's an international socialist, but then says he will vote to maintain a right wing establishment ruling over our country. Is this the point where you start calling people names whilst losing the argument? How's that for an oxymoron. Your over simplifying of such an important issue is telling. No insults from me friend, I don't think it's required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Said in the ET, at least 4 other Labour councillors voted YES last year. Would you prefer they kept voting no? Better late than never and the more the merrier I say. Of course the sentence I borrowed from elsewhere in my last comment does ring true. Even this is welcome news. http://www.thenational.scot/politics/new-scottish-libertarian-party-set-to-launch-and-call-for-independence.10658 People are beginning to see the writing on the wall and the pressure is mounting. Sorry but that doesn't sound very welcome to me. Don't like the sound of them at all. I don't want independence at any cost. There were many reasons why I supported independence and whilst I'd be a liar if I said good old national pride wasn't one of them, it was a distance behind a chance for greater social justice. I'm not sure this lot subscribe to that desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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