Westminster Business

[ErsatzThistle]

Dennis Skinner is pissed off at us ...............

From the New Statesman

Other than shattering the very foundations of Scottish political life, the SNP is causing a stir elsewhere. Its new MPs are trying to take over the much-coveted corner seat on the "rebels' bench" in the House of Commons.

The seat itself is on the corner of the frontbench along the aisle from the opposition frontbench, furthest away from the Speaker. Here it is:

This seat has been occupied by Dennis Skinner, Labour backbench veteran and monarch-bothering socialist firebrand, since he wrested it from David Owen in the early Eighties. But he has been sitting on that row ever since Edward Heath became Prime Minister in 1970; Skinner has been an MP - the "Beast of Bolsover" - since that year.

Here he is in action from his favourite seat - an ideal vantage point for heckling the Prime Minister:

But the new SNP contingent of 56 MPs attempted today to steal Skinner's seat, in parliament's first vote since it dissolved for the general election. Hours ahead of parliamentary business, which began at 2.30pm today, SNP MPs took it in turns to sit in Skinner's seat in order to reserve it for their party.

Skinner managed to force them out of the seat, but he warns the SNP MPs he won't give up without a fight when parliament sits next week. He tells me: "Today is one victory, and it is significant, but it will be a running battle."

Every morning at 8am, Skinner reserves the seat with a prayer card. He won't give away how he'll beat the 56 MPs' rota system - "It's like a Premier League football match; you don't reveal your plans" - but says, "I'm not going to go quietly... I've never had any trouble in 30-odd years [reserving the seat] when Big Ben chimes. That's what they have to remember.

"I am here every day, and they are determined to try and get me out. It tells you a lot about them - the idea that you're going to throw out an 83-year-old after 45 years. It's a great political victory to be on the rebel bench. I don't think some of them understand how it works at all."

Skinner's main gripe isn't even the breaking of tradition. It's that he believes the SNP MPs are slavishly following instructions. "They don't understand what they're doing on behalf of the leadership," he says. "The rota system might work for a while, but they are just being lobby fodder for their leader. They might get fed up of that. I would. I've always been a backbencher; I've never been lobby fodder."

I ask Skinner what he said to the new MPs he clashed with this afternoon in the chamber. "You don't want to be in Westminster full-time, do you?" he replies. "You want to get away from Westminster with your Barnett Formula, so that my constituents have to pay money to Scotland, and with your North Sea Oil. Some of them didn't answer at all. They were ordered to do it [try and take my seat]."

Keep an eye out for what might be the bloodiest political battle of our times.

[redstevie007]

True, dat.

Would you like me to be the cat?

[Stapes]

Not at the same time.

Informal engagement (like lunch, dinner, breakfast, water cooler, bar) are perhaps the most effective times to influence.

Utter pish!
Nothing important gets sorted out in a works canteen at lunchtime.
And that's based on 25 years of attending meetings, courses, conferences etc. You can meet new people but you don't influence a decision maker over a chip butty or caviar on a cracker.
Only academics who've never had a real job could think that.

Having worked in politics I can assure you it happens all the time. We had a canteen/side room next to the chamber and deals were thrashed out in there all the time.

[exile]

Seems to me the SNP need to be clear about what they are trying to do. Of course they may like to set themselves apart from an Establishment they have no desire to join. But they are surely not there to make token gestures of defiance and disrespect. Nor to be trying to disrupt everything and sabotage the democratic process. Surely their job is to get in there with a quiet steely purpose, to play the system (only) as far as it helps them meet their ultimate party and national(ist) goals, while serving the interests of all their constituents. There's no point pi$$ing everyone off, if it is going to be counter-productive down the line.

It's not a wembley weekend with the tartan army - at least, they are supposed to be the players, not the fans.

[andymac]

Seems to me the SNP need to be clear about what they are trying to do. Of course they may like to set themselves apart from an Establishment they have no desire to join. But they are surely not there to make token gestures of defiance and disrespect. Nor to be trying to disrupt everything and sabotage the democratic process. Surely their job is to get in there with a quiet steely purpose, to play the system (only) as far as it helps them meet their ultimate party and national(ist) goals, while serving the interests of all their constituents. There's no point pi$$ing everyone off, if it is going to be counter-productive down the line.

It's not a wembley weekend with the tartan army - at least, they are supposed to be the players, not the fans.

Where is the like button?

[Lamia]

Think it is quite sad that all people seem to be interested in is where they are sitting, what they are eating and if the clap or not. I mean really, is that all anyone cares about now? We are a week in and only just getting down to business and people seem to think they should have had a significant influence over a majority Tory government already - give me strength

[ParisInAKilt]

I've emailed my MP to make sure he's sitting with all the Tories so he can influence their policies on austerity.

[Lamia]

I've emailed my MP to make sure he's sitting with all the Tories so he can influence their policies on austerity.

Good idea - I will have a word with mine too.

[Ally Bongo]

Think it is quite sad that all people seem to be interested in is where they are sitting, what they are eating and if the clap or not. I mean really, is that all anyone cares about now? We are a week in and only just getting down to business and people seem to think they should have had a significant influence over a majority Tory government already - give me strength

This and the fox hunting non story (if there is a bill to bring it back it wont win) is typical of politics today - to take everyone's eye off the ball to whats really going on

[Lamia]

I think the fact that they are making such a stir with the trivial things people are taking an interest in says more about Westminster and the people who are caring about it than the SNP MP's to be honest.

[Stapes]

Seems to me the SNP need to be clear about what they are trying to do. Of course they may like to set themselves apart from an Establishment they have no desire to join. But they are surely not there to make token gestures of defiance and disrespect. Nor to be trying to disrupt everything and sabotage the democratic process. Surely their job is to get in there with a quiet steely purpose, to play the system (only) as far as it helps them meet their ultimate party and national(ist) goals, while serving the interests of all their constituents. There's no point pi$$ing everyone off, if it is going to be counter-productive down the line.

It's not a wembley weekend with the tartan army - at least, they are supposed to be the players, not the fans.

To be fair. I think they've only done a couple of things that have been anything near token gestures. Clapping in chamber = blown out of all proportion by the media. Selfies in chamber = blown out of all proportion by the media.Chip buttygate = who cares? Skinner's seat = wouldn't have been mentioned if it had been anyone else other than the SNP. Oath = perfectly legitimate to question this. Robertson's speech = funny, but with hindsight maybe a little mean-spirited (but certainly set out the SNP's stall). All in all they've done nothing to upset the establishment applecart yet, but the media will portray it that way.

[Lamia]

This and the fox hunting non story (if there is a bill to bring it back it wont win) is typical of politics today - to take everyone's eye off the ball to whats really going on

Yeah it is all smoke and mirrors and as usual people on hear are taking the bait and not seeing it for what it is.

[scotlad]

No, because she is dense, can't talk properly and is a socialist, which means she doesn't know anything about economics or history.

Dense? I doubt she'd be studying for a degree at Glasgow University if she was dense.

Oh, wait a minute...

[andymac]

Yeah it is all smoke and mirrors and as usual people on hear are taking the bait and not seeing it for what it is.

No, I think people can see it for what it is. For the 'real' opposition (and in fact they are as labour are in such disarray) they are singularly quiet on the major issues. To use a football analogy, they are 10 minutes into the cup final but are letting the bigger team get into their rythym.

[Ally Bongo]

No, I think people can see it for what it is. For the 'real' opposition (and in fact they are as labour are in such disarray) they are singularly quiet on the major issues. To use a football analogy, they are 10 minutes into the cup final but are letting the bigger team get into their rythym.

You honestly think Fox hunting is a major issue in the grand scale of things ?

Not even a bill to reinstate it yet ?

Fox Hunting that is banned in Scotland and always will be ?

The SNP stating they will not vote on English only issues ad nauseum ?

2 days into a new parliament ?

SNP's opening remarks is they plan to oppose austerity to the full ?

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ally Bongo

[Lamia]

You honestly think Fox hunting is a major issue in the grand scale of things ?

Not even a bill to reinstate it yet ?

Fox Hunting that is banned in Scotland and always will be ?

The SNP stating they will not vote on English only issues ad nauseum ?

2 days into a new parliament ?

SNP's opening remarks is they plan to oppose austerity to the full ?

Yup smoke and mirrors....

[Ally Bongo]

Yup smoke and mirrors....

I think he is on the wind up because if not his last post makes him look rather bitter

[ErsatzThistle]

Dense? I doubt she'd be studying for a degree at Glasgow University if she was dense.

Oh, wait a minute...

Was told just the other day of how her activists were going round folks doors before polling day telling them not to vote for Natalie McGarry because "she's not one of us" and that by contrast "Mags is one of our own".

So glad that horrid bitch is gone now.

[andymac]

You honestly think Fox hunting is a major issue in the grand scale of things ?

Not even a bill to reinstate it yet ?

Fox Hunting that is banned in Scotland and always will be ?

The SNP stating they will not vote on English only issues ad nauseum ?

2 days into a new parliament ?

SNP's opening remarks is they plan to oppose austerity to the full ?

Fox hunting? You are jumping threads. Is ir a big deal? Moraly yes.

I may be two days into a new paliament but I am hearing little from the real opposition. They should have been down May's neck for her half arsed plans for tightening the rules on

who gets prosecuted for what.

By saying that the SNP would lock the Tories out of government they have already stated that they would re-shape English politics, by saying that they would oppose austerity they are claining to re-shape English politics o I'm not sure what you are driving at,

Yup smoke and mirrors....

Useful. I am saying they have not yet engaged and I get some crap comment back.

[andymac]

I think he is on the wind up because if not his last post makes him look rather bitter

Bitter about what?

[Ally Bongo]

Fox hunting? You are jumping threads. Is ir a big deal? Moraly yes.

I may be two days into a new paliament but I am hearing little from the real opposition. They should have been down May's neck for her half arsed plans for tightening the rules on

who gets prosecuted for what.

By saying that the SNP would lock the Tories out of government they have already stated that they would re-shape English politics, by saying that they would oppose austerity they are claining to re-shape English politics o I'm not sure what you are driving at,

Useful. I am saying they have not yet engaged and I get some crap comment back.

Bitter about what?

Ive went right back to the start of this thread and all i can see is;

A non story about getting rid of the Scottish Affairs committee

The oath

Mhairi Black and the canteen

Mhairi Black is a rat

Where Dennis Skinner sits

Fox hunting

The parliament hasnt even started yet - it's all been formalities

Having a right pop at the SNP about being quiet about "major issues" that havent even started to be discussed yet because it's not the time for that does seem rather anti SNP and bitter

Forgive me if im wrong .....

[andymac]

Ive went right back to the start of this thread and all i can see is;

A non story about getting rid of the Scottish Affairs committee -- No idea, I made no comment

The oath - No idea, i made no comment

Mhairi Black and the canteen -- My comment was that I hoped my MP would take every chance he could to influence the future by building informal relationshipd (which you seemed to agree that they are important)

Mhairi Black is a rat -- No idea, i made no comment

Where Dennis Skinner sits -- No idea, I made no comment

Fox hunting -- On another thread, I said vote it down. Its morally wrong. I think people should vote for the right thing. This isn't economics its morals.

The parliament hasnt even started yet - it's all been formalities. Politics continues outside Westminster, couldn't give a flying one about formalities, its the reality that matters.

Having a right pop at the SNP about being quiet about "major issues" that havent even started to be discussed yet because it's not the time for that does seem rather anti SNP and bitter. I'll forgive you but the time has already come. I'm not bitter and I STILL don't see why my comments lead you to that conclusion

Forgive me if im wrong .....

[Ally Bongo]

You asked if id jumped threads which is why i highlighted the posts in this thread - the latter being to do with fox hunting

I made the point that at the moment it is an absolute non story for the reasons given and it is total deflection politics with no doubt the plan being to lead the SNP into a trap or to get their members riled up - Think about it

And again - Parliament has not even officially started. The Queen opens it up next week

Formalities means Formalities - reality or not

Each party gets to make an opening statement. There is no discussions on those statements and no votes

Cameron could have got up and said he wants to ban polishing as his opening statement. Its as meaningless as him saying he wants to make it a United Parliament which he did say

I dont really get what bit of that you dont understand

I want the SNP to get tore in as much as anyone else but thats for after next week when there actually is bills being presented for discussion & votes - which there isnt just now

[andymac]

You asked if id jumped threads which is why i highlighted the posts in this thread - the latter being to do with fox hunting

I made the point that at the moment it is an absolute non story for the reasons given and it is total deflection politics with no doubt the plan being to lead the SNP into a trap or to get their members riled up - Think about it

And again - Parliament has not even officially started. The Queen opens it up next week

Formalities means Formalities - reality or not

Each party gets to make an opening statement. There is no discussions on those statements and no votes

Cameron could have got up and said he wants to ban polishing as his opening statement. Its as meaningless as him saying he wants to make it a United Parliament which he did say

I dont really get what bit of that you dont understand

I want the SNP to get tore in as much as anyone else but thats for after next week when there actually is bills being presented for discussion & votes - which there isnt just now

The fox hunting is a red herring in this discussion. It was on another thread and IMO people should vote against it when it appears. A free vote usually which unchains the SNP from their no voting on english issues bit.

You seem to be ignoring my comments on already influencing English politics.

I must have dreamt all the politicing that is already going on. Maybe the BBC is the real opposition as they managed to make May look like an arse. The Tories are already shaping opinion, the SNP are not at the races.

How does this make me bitter? That is the bit I don't understand. What am I bitter about?

Edited May 18, 2015 by andymac

[Ally Bongo]

The fox hunting is a red herring in this discussion. It was on another thread and IMO people should vote against it when it appears. A free vote usually which unchains the SNP from their no voting on english issues bit.

You seem to be ignoring my comments on already influencing English politics.

I must have dreamt all the politicing that is already going on. Maybe the BBC is the real opposition as they managed to make May look like an arse. The Tories are already shaping opinion, the SNP are not at the races.

How does this make me bitter? That is the bit I don't understand. What am I bitter about?

Again - Parliament has not yet started - No bills put forward, no debates, no votes, nothing for the SNP to put their stamp on yet, and thus nothing yet for them to influence

The media are in a position to make politicians look like arses at the moment - None of the parties are as there is nothing up for debate, no bills put forward, no discussions in the chamber no votes

I really dont know how to make that any clearer

The UK media were always going to have a Tory love in right after the election - what can the SNP do about that ?

The Tories won the election - all the media will focus on is the winners and their manifesto right now

All thats open to the SNP at the moment was to make their opening parliamentary statement in which they said they would totally oppose austerity

Has any MP from any party been interviewed about anything happening at Westminster yet ? Theres a reason for that - Nothing is happening

I dont actually know what you want them to do when parliament has not yet started so anyone that slates them right now makes them look anti SNP and bitter because one last time - nothing is being officially discussed or voted on in Parliament

And for the record - although its smoke and mirrors - i agree regards foxhunting but thats for somewhere further down the line when a bill is presented !

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ally Bongo