ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 There's no denying that Labour are evil scum sucking badgers... But to compare them to the Tories is unfair. It's their own fault. You can't campaign with them for 2 years and then expect to distance yourself only a couple of months later. A decision that will really harm Labour in scotland for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 There's no denying that Labour are evil scum sucking badgers... But to compare them to the Tories is unfair. I'm just discussing this with an SNP friend of mine just now and he told me that Hosie said during Hustings that a Tory government would be beneficial to the SNP. The "Vote the Red Tories out... But not the real Tories" line is unsettling for me, and not one to be spoken outside of hushed tones... Certainly not at a hustings meeting. I somewhat agree with you on your line of thinking. Thinking of what's best for the people in the UK (including Scotland) I'm torn on how I want the outcome of the election to unfold. On one hand Labour will be a bit more left-leaning, I actually feel a bit sorry for Milliband as he's clearly more left-leaning than his party allows him to be these days. However, with Ed Balls saying he wouldn't change much of the last Tory budget and other overtures on austerity, I don't think they'll be much difference between them and the Tories except appearing less competent. I think a Labour minority government with support from SNP/Plaid/Greens would be the best bet for some leftish policies, however, I'm not sure how well it'll actually work in practice given Westminster being so used to 2 party politics. I am however enjoying the diversion that the SNP are causing and the resultant stramash that's ensuing. I'm also glad it's taken some of the media spotlight from UKIP, I was dreading hearing about them for 3 months solid. I still don't think it'll be a Labour wipeout in Scotland or maybe I just can't believe it's possible. It's definitely brightened my political mood following the referendum with the thought of "Well you wanted us, so here we are." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) It's their own fault. You can't campaign with them for 2 years and then expect to distance yourself only a couple of months later. A decision that will really harm Labour in scotland for years to come. Yep. And under the surface, they've really not changed at all. Murphy and the press glorifying his 100 days tour gives me the dry boak, but the hiring of McDougall and McTernan only confirmed that Scottish Labour plan to continue what was started during the referendum. McTernan's subsequent comments to Tory party conference only underlined there's little difference between the parties. I dont know how anyone can reconcile Murphy's comments on tuition fees with McTernan taking a wage. It is just not possible to talk to me about the Labour Party as being of the left while they continue to hire campaign and policy advisers like McDougall and McTernan. I don't like to use terms such as "Red Tories" but for those three at the top of Scottish Labour, the term is very apt. Edited March 23, 2015 by Auld_Reekie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Yep. And under the surface, they've really not changed at all. Murphy and the press glorifying his 100 days tour gives me the dry boak, but the hiring of McDougall and McTernan only confirmed that Scottish Labour plan to continue what was started during the referendum. McTernan's subsequent comments to Tory party conference only underlined there's little difference between the parties. I dont know how anyone can reconcile Murphy's comments on tuition fees with McTernan taking a wage. It is just not possible to talk to me about the Labour Party as being of the left while they continue to hire campaign and policy advisers like McDougall and McTernan. I don't like to use terms such as "Red Tories" but for those three at the top of Scottish Labour, the term is very apt. Agreed. The appointment of Murphy was pretty much it for me. Completely unelectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's their own fault. You can't campaign with them for 2 years and then expect to distance yourself only a couple of months later. A decision that will really harm Labour in scotland for years to come. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It was all very well for Labour to oppose independence, but to do so under the Better Together umbrella was suicide. Yep. And under the surface, they've really not changed at all. Murphy and the press glorifying his 100 days tour gives me the dry boak, but the hiring of McDougall and McTernan only confirmed that Scottish Labour plan to continue what was started during the referendum. McTernan's subsequent comments to Tory party conference only underlined there's little difference between the parties. I dont know how anyone can reconcile Murphy's comments on tuition fees with McTernan taking a wage. It is just not possible to talk to me about the Labour Party as being of the left while they continue to hire campaign and policy advisers like McDougall and McTernan. I don't like to use terms such as "Red Tories" but for those three at the top of Scottish Labour, the term is very apt. It would be dishonest for anyone to claim the Labour Party as left, they're not even left of the SNP in many areas. Scottish Labour on the other hand are the very definition of "Not getting it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It was all very well for Labour to oppose independence, but to do so under the Better Together umbrella was suicide. It would be dishonest for anyone to claim the Labour Party as left, they're not even left of the SNP in many areas. Scottish Labour on the other hand are the very definition of "Not getting it". Agreed. All the positivity I felt for politics is quickly evaporating. Meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maq Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Oh aye, I'd forgotten about McDougall and McTernan!......... fukk' Labour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Back on point, I like Salmond but cringed a bit at his recent intervention, he's never really annoyed me but don't think this helps overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld_Reekie Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Back on point, I like Salmond but cringed a bit at his recent intervention, he's never really annoyed me but don't think this helps overall. He's a formidable politician but he's done some pretty cringeworthy stuff in his time. The Solero stuff that's on Twitter is a major cringe moment, and I always find his "dance to a Scottish jig" type soundbites hugely embarrassing - parochial and shortbread-esque. Thon hideous "rocks would melt with the sun" commemorative stone at Heriot Watt uni is another. No doubting his ability but he's prone to the odd beemur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 Salmond is still a venerable politician, but he's had his time as leader of the SNP. Nicola has done a fantastic job in 6 months, understated, non-confrontational, yet strong as steel. She's enhanced her reputation with a large part fo the Scottish electorate as a down to earth, conviction politician who can be trusted. 50% of the people who saw Alex on TV yesterday would have been roaring with delight, but 50% would have been rolling their eyes and muttering 'ah cannae stand thon Salmond'. I don't think it's wise at this moment for the SNP to be seen as arrogant, demanding or confrontational, and I'm afraid that's what Alex Salmond is coming across as to many. He did a fabulous job, but while we're on the same path under Nicola we're taking different sized steps to reach our destination. Better that Alex concentrates on getting elected for the moment, and stays off national TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Salmond was one of the very few MPs in Westminster who persistently got under the skin of Tony Blair at the height of his power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I wonder how much this is the media chasing after Alex knowing how much he divides opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrocelli Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 A tory, or tory UKIP coalition are the perfect storm conditions for a SNP 2nd ref option in 2016 manifesto. Any sign of the SNP cooperating with a minority Labour govt does more damage to the prospects of another referendum than any tory govt. It lays open the opportunity to claim, and for some demonstrate, that Westminster can be made to work for Scotland without independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usainboltyarocket Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Most of the Salmond panic seems to be in England though, where they can't vote for him or the SNP. Perhaps the FM's impending appearances on the tv debates will redress that a bit?... The politicians hate Salmond. Many in England would love a leader like Salmond who stands up to the establishment who have created this unequal war mongering country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 The politicians hate Salmond. Many in England would love a leader like Salmond who stands up to the establishment who have created this unequal war mongering country. In what way does he stand up to the establishment? I'm asking from a position of ignorance as I haven't been keeping up with him since the referendum. What I do remember seeing though is his ridiculous commitment to cutting corporation tax, his reluctance to back redistributive policies, and his refusal to commit to a 50p tax rate. Which isn't exactly challenging any establishment. Sturgeon on the other hand is at least saying the right things, although it's still to be seen whether she can be trusted or not. In my opinion it's best for the SNP to put Nicola to the forefront, and a gag on Salmond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usainboltyarocket Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 In what way does he stand up to the establishment? I'm asking from a position of ignorance as I haven't been keeping up with him since the referendum. What I do remember seeing though is his ridiculous commitment to cutting corporation tax, his reluctance to back redistributive policies, and his refusal to commit to a 50p tax rate. Which isn't exactly challenging any establishment. Sturgeon on the other hand is at least saying the right things, although it's still to be seen whether she can be trusted or not. In my opinion it's best for the SNP to put Nicola to the forefront, and a gag on Salmond. He ran the yes campaign for a start. I don't agree with the council tax freeze for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 He ran the yes campaign for a start. I don't agree with the council tax freeze for example. He most certainly did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usainboltyarocket Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 He most certainly did not. At the top he did. The yes campaign was a people's movement. Salmond was an excellent media leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Salmond is still a venerable politician, but he's had his time as leader of the SNP. Nicola has done a fantastic job in 6 months, understated, non-confrontational, yet strong as steel. She's enhanced her reputation with a large part fo the Scottish electorate as a down to earth, conviction politician who can be trusted. 50% of the people who saw Alex on TV yesterday would have been roaring with delight, but 50% would have been rolling their eyes and muttering 'ah cannae stand thon Salmond'. I don't think it's wise at this moment for the SNP to be seen as arrogant, demanding or confrontational, and I'm afraid that's what Alex Salmond is coming across as to many. He did a fabulous job, but while we're on the same path under Nicola we're taking different sized steps to reach our destination. Better that Alex concentrates on getting elected for the moment, and stays off national TV. I tend to agree. Sturgeon better fits the post referendum mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 At the top he did. The yes campaign was a people's movement. Salmond was an excellent media leader. So he's anti establishment by "leading" a campaign based on the pro establishment values I mentioned above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Is James Kelly really as thick as he sounds? He might actually have a 180 IQ, but his monotone soundbites mean that I stopped listening after about three seconds. Dire stuff, and the reason that Scottish Labour is on death row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'd call the 50p tax rate, Repealing the Tory health act (for our English friends), a mansion tax and reforming the energy industry as more than tinkering round the edges. But that's just me. There's a lot to hate about Milibands Labour, but compared to Blairs they're a step in the right direction. A Labour minority government propped up by smaller parties is my preferred outcome. How much revenue are these policies costed to raise, and how much of it will be redistributed towards the poor, and how? When you stack that up against the £30 billion of extra cuts which Labour has already agreed to then this tinkering at the edges pales into insignificance. Don't forget that Labour were in power for 13 years and the gap between rich and poor just continued to get bigger for the whole of that period. Whether we get a Tory or a Labour Prime Minister they will continue to force the poor to pay for the mistakes of the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Whether we get a Tory or a Labour Prime Minister they will continue to force the poor to pay for the mistakes of the rich. You're absolutely right, but when it comes to austerity there is no genuine, viable anti-austerity option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You're absolutely right, but when it comes to austerity there is no genuine, viable anti-austerity option. Correct, but it will change. Soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Correct, but it will change. Soon. Do tell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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